Help a girl out

[Chellew22]

Hi guys I'm looking for some advise if possible please

 

My ex boyfriend, long gone, long story lol left me with the below airsoft stuff at my house, and it's been sat with me for a couple of years. I don't know if you can help me with values or how I go about selling?

I've got an M249 gun, a helmet, some flash bangs and grenades... Maybe even a few more bits kicking around

[kerby91]

Depends on make and condition, the pyro (grenades) u may struggle to get much for as u can buy em cheap as is. The m249 looks nice enough but again it depends on make and condition. I'm sure someone will come along shortly to help you a bit better than I can but I'm afraid I'm knackered from a days skirmishing.

 

Good luck

[geoffreym]

Hi guys I'm looking for some advise if possible please

 

My ex boyfriend, long gone, long story lol left me with the below airsoft stuff at my house, and it's been sat with me for a couple of years. I don't know if you can help me with values or how I go about selling?

I've got an M249 gun, a helmet, some flash bangs and grenades... Maybe even a few more bits kicking aroundimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

 

 

the helmet I'd put on ebay, it looks like one of the £20 chinese jobbies (if you can take a photo of the inside of the helmet it might be easier to identify), the grenades I'd keep hold of as home defence, your looking at about £20 again for all of them .

the gun could be a gold mine though, could you take any photos of any writing on the gun, first guess would would be it was an "A&K M249 Mk1" in which case if it worked, people could pay up to £200 (if you were willing to wait £150 for a quick and easy sale), but if it didn't work I'd probably take it off of your hands for £100.

just realised, is there a box mag around for it? if it isn't there take off £50 on my estimates.

[Airsoft_Mr B]

Yeah the grenades you can buy for about £2 each. Not much re-sale value individually, also I think you're not allowed to post them (for obvious reasons really)

The two manufacturers I can think of who make 249s are A&K (~£280 new) and Classic Army (~£400 new)

[JamesAirsofterAgent]

Why would he leave such a beautiful gun! lol.

[Chellew22]

Thanks guys

Yes I know I do have a box mag for it

And a battery

A charger I'm not sure

The sight says Tokyo Marui on it, but I'm sure was added after

The gun was only used a few times

No other writing on it

But I remember buying it for his birthday and it costing nearly £400

[Ian_Gere]

I am not accusing you of anything, Chellew22, but I have to say that my first thoughts went to your ex and wondering what his attitude to your selling his, quite possibly, pride and joy is. Does he know you are selling his stuff? If not, it's theft and anyone who bought any of it could very well lose it without any compensation when/if that comes to light and have to take that up with you through the civil courts.

[Russe11]

Had you considered using them? It's great exercise (especially with a gun that big).

 

When selling the gun, you have to do reasonable checks that you are selling to someone who is using it for airsoft or re-enactment. The easy way would be to ask for a UKARA number and email address, then check here: http://www.ukaraselfcheck.co.uk/

[Airsoft_Mr B]

I am not accusing you of anything, Chellew22, but I have to say that my first thoughts went to your ex and wondering what his attitude to your selling his, quite possibly, pride and joy is. Does he know you are selling his stuff? If not, it's theft and anyone who bought any of it could very well lose it without any compensation when/if that comes to light and have to take that up with you through the civil courts.

I guess he musn't be too bothered if he left a long time ago and hasn't came back for it or anything. If it was a present she bought then it's still technically hers?

 

Was this before 2007 by any chance? Because since then the VCR Act means you need proof you're an airsofter otherwise you need your gun in a bright colour (basically)

[Chellew22]

I am not accusing you of anything, Chellew22, but I have to say that my first thoughts went to your ex and wondering what his attitude to your selling his, quite possibly, pride and joy is. Does he know you are selling his stuff? If not, it's theft and anyone who bought any of it could very well lose it without any compensation when/if that comes to light and have to take that up with you through the civil courts.

Ok, I understand your concern, but really wouldn't post publicly if an issue

Firstly as mentioned above I bought it, and secondly I'm really not silly

I've neither stolen nor am I doing anything illegal or unjust

These have been with me for 2 years now after splitting up

We are no longer in contact and he left these behind when took his things

He also barely used

They are no use to me, so thought I'd ask the question

[Ian_Gere]

I guess he musn't be too bothered if he left a long time ago and hasn't came back for it or anything. If it was a present she bought then it's still technically hers?

 

Was this before 2007 by any chance? Because since then the VCR Act means you need proof you're an airsofter otherwise you need your gun in a bright colour (basically)

Not necessarily - I have a couple of synths and a power amp still in my ex's shed. She's happy enough because she doesn't use the shed for anything anyway and with the various things my health issues have thrown up to deal with since then, i just haven't got around to moving them. When a gift is given, it belongs to the person who receives it. How is it technically still the giver's?

 

Ok, I understand your concern, but really wouldn't post publicly if an issue

Firstly as mentioned above I bought it, and secondly I'm really not silly

I've neither stolen nor am I doing anything illegal or unjust

These have been with me for 2 years now after splitting up

We are no longer in contact and he left these behind when took his things

He also barely used

They are no use to me, so thought I'd ask the question

OK, fair enough. The lack of contact after leaving them is the crucial info for me. Without an agreement to look after them, it's the same as when storage companies auction off stuff when the rent isn't paid. Good luck to you As Russe11 says though, it's a perfect opportunity to try something a bit random: you never know, you may love it.

 

As has been said, most couriers will not carry pyros, but some do - IIRC UPS are airsoftworld.net's courier of choice for pyros, but you'll need to check the small print. Do not just ask, because what we tend to find is that people who work for these companies often do not actually know their company's policy but nonetheless feel an overwhelming urge to get their jobsworth on But yeah, all types of pyrotechnic are prohibited by Royal Mail.

[Sitting Duck]

Blimey - best keep on Mrs Duck's good side then

 

Hell have no fury & all that stuff she could flogg

[Jambo88]

I'll give you £100 for everything

[Shizbazki]

Hi Chellew22

 

Allow me to be a bit of a Policeman here (as in seeing it from the eyes of the law)

 

This will be a bit of an essay (so i provided a TL:DR version just below with long bit below that) in order to address as many points as possible in one go.

 

TL:DR version:

The gun is the real cookie item and would net you around £150 to £200 depending on brand and condition as I know of someone asking for an M249 SAW on these here forums

http://www.airsoft-forums.co.uk/index.php/topic/24024-m249-para/

 

Most importantly find out a way to contact him by any means even via a third party (like a friend of his) to see if he wants his stuff, he could pop up anytime asking for it and when he found out you sold it can make a malicious allegation against you (YES PEOPLE DO THAT) to the police.

 

LONG VERSION

From what i understand the following points is that:

· You purchased some or all the items for your ex as a gift

· That subsequently after your break up he has left these items at your home

· That it has been about 2 years that you have split

· That you are no longer able to contact him (does this means both directly and indirectly)

· That you intend to rid yourself of said items by way of sale

 

Firstly i can see a number of issues cropping up from this since the break up of a couple (even if its an amicable one) can turn sour very quickly over property and money etc.

 

The S1 Theft Act 1968 states that a person is guilty of the offence if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intent to permanently deprive the other of it.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60

 

Lets break this down first.

Dishonestly: Basically not being truthful of ownership

Appropriates: takes, makes their own,

Property: this can be anything including Airsoft stuff

Belonging to another: says exactly what it means on the tin

Intent to: The Mens Rea of the offence (the intention)

Permanently Deprive the Other of It: This means to keep or own the item, to sell, eat or destroy it

 

So in your case:

Dishonestly: Not saying you are or are not but please i implore you to find his consent (trust me it will clear things up later)

Appropriates: Yes you have taken charge of the items are they are in your control, control is not the same as ownership an example would be say someone lent you a DVD movie? you are in control of it but you do not own it

Property: Yes there is property namely the airsoft stuff

Belonging to another: This is the arguable bit

Intent to: Well you intend to sell it right?

Permanently Deprive the Other of It: Well someone will be permanently deprived of it if and when you sell it, the arguable bit is who will be you or your ex?

 

Firstly we need to establish who owns what, do you own all the items, did you buy everything for him or bits of it, anything he bought using his own money say for example the helmet is technically his and therefore the sale of it would constitute as theft.

 

However if you have given him certain things like the gun which i believe you stated you bought for him as a gift, even with a receipt that you purchased it, if you have given the gun to him as a gift then you have (in the eyes of the law) transferred ownership of the gun from you to him as you forfeited your ownership of it, he is technically the owner of the gun and therefore selling it would constitute as theft.

 

Imagine the scenario (and i have seen this played out in real life many a times between ex's over things as trivial as some clothes or DVDs or Mucis CDs and even a Library Card):

One day out of the blue he rocks up, knocks on your door and asks for all his airsoft stuff, you said you sold it, he gets the hump and because all the stuff was gifted to him he believes he still has ownership of it and calls the police, he gives his allegation to them that you sold his airsoft stuff without his consent and is willing to proceed with the allegation, as its a Domestic Incident (as you were both in an intimate relationship at one point regardless of how long has passed) they have to (as per ACPO guidance in the case where there is an offence in a domestic related incident officers MUST take a positive action policy and 9 out of 10 times) arrest you (which will mean you get a PNCID Number if you haven't already got one (don't take the last statement badly, i don't know you so don't know if you have one or not) in order for the offence to be properly investigated by way of taped recorded interview, this could lead to depending what you say during interview No Further Action or a Caution or Charged to appear at a Magistrates Court and if they find it in his favour will convict you and you will end up with a Criminal Record (unless you already have one then it will be added to it (again i don't know you so don't know if you have one or not). Even if you are no further action'ed he may still take you to a civil claims court in order to recuperate the monetary value of the items sold.

 

In reality the officers would most likely use some discretion and say to him "If you left her so long ago, why only now do you want the stuff back?" and if they learn about the gifting of it would likely point him in the direction of a civil claims court and then would he be bothered to do that, likelihood is NO.

 

Please don't take this whole statement as literal but you can see how nasty it can get, some people can be vindictive F**KS when they want to and can ruin your life just because they can for shits and giggles. Its seems to me from your first statement "My ex boyfriend, long gone, long story lol", that you have had a bad split or at the very least not an amicable one so it would weigh on the side that he would likely be an arse about it if you sold the stuff just to annoy you.

 

The best way of going about this is to contact him directly by phone, facebook (remember you can message people who are not friended to you), whatsapp or if that's not possible indirectly via mutual friends or friends of friends etc, you are likely to have three outcomes from here:

 

A: You get in contact him somehow or other, asks if he wants the stuff back, he says YES, he comes round at an agreed time and date, have mutual friends between you or better yet call the local police to ask if an officer can attend to witness the exchange of property and prevent a Breach of the Peace (this might not always happen or be available) but do let the officer know upon his/her arrival what the items are so that they dont get the shock of their life when they see an LMG being exchanged. You exchange property without incident JOB DONE.

 

B: You get in contact him somehow or other, asks if he wants the stuff back, he says NO, if you have a phone call recording, Facebook messenger log etc of him saying NO, Save it and keep it, sell the stuff on this here good forum and be done with it. If he crops up weeks later asking for the stuff you have a phone call recording or face book log showing that he gave you permission to sell it as he relinquished ownership of it, tough luck to him JOB DONE.

 

C: You have made every effort to contact him be it by phone, letter, email, facebook messenger etc or find him via mutual friends, going to his house, speaking to his parents and still cannot get in contact with him, keeping a log of your progress in order to contact him to ask about this stuff you sell it under the defence that you believe he has relinquished his ownership of said items, should he pop up a few weeks later you have proof you made every effort to find him, JOB DONE.

 

Chances are that putting it on a public forum such as this which he may be a member of and see might spark his interest in wanting it back so be prepared to hear from him again regarding this.

 

Finally should you have done all the above and come to the conclusion to sell it then you must ensure that whomever you sell the gun to must have a legal defence to buy the gun such as a UKARA registered airsofter or other defence See the Law section in this forum for more guidence.

 

Finally don't take what i have said above as Gospel as depending where you live in the UK your local Police force may have its own different policies regarding the above and there are probably another hundred factors which you may have missed out that i don't know about and i have only described one out of many worse case scenarios to you from real life experiences.

 

Take my advice or not, up to you really

[Chellew22]

We'll I'm very sorry

Didn't mean to cause such an issue

[Chellew22]

I only got them out as cleaning the loft lol and wondered

I'll put them back

Not worth the hassle to me

Not even about the money just no use to me, a shame to sit there, may have brought enjoyment to someone else

Now I know better lol

Thanks anyway

[Chock]

You are required by law to give notice to the owner of goods left behind if you are intending to sell them, and that notice must be in writing. This is to protect you, in demonstrating that you have made all practical efforts to contact the person. It must be delivered to the person, either by post or left at his address (and although it is not technically a requirement at this stage, sending it by recorded delivery is not a bad idea, as is keeping a copy of the notice, and getting it witnessed by someone of good character). Such a notice must specify the property owner's name and address, must list the goods you intend to sell, and must notify the person of where their property is presently located. In UK law, there is no specific time period you must wait for them to respond to this before you can proceed with a sale, but the law does state that you must give the person 'reasonable time' to arrange to collect the goods. In most legal cases where this kind of thing has gone on, 'reasonable time' is typically regarded as three months. If after this period, the goods have not been collected, and if you have made all practical efforts to attempt to contact the person whose goods they are but have been unable to do so, then you can proceed with disposal, but, if you are in contact with the person whose goods they are, then you must give the date upon which you propose to sell the things, and this notice must be sent to them by registered post or recorded delivery, to ensure that they are informed of the decision to sell the goods.

 

If, after you have made all reasonable and practicable efforts to contact the person, and they still have not responded to contact, you can go ahead, and it is worth noting that you can also charge for having stored the goods, which is basically your 'get out clause' for if you do sell the goods and then the person subsequently shows up, because if you get (for example) 200 quid for them, you can say the storage costs were 200 quid and you sold them to cover that cost, thus relieving you of the necessity to hand over 200 quid. The law will see this as reasonable for something like an M249 airsoft gun, because it is not exactly a small thing and you have been inconvenienced in storing the thing for a long time, the law will also see it as reasonable for the pyrotechnics, because you have been inconvenienced in storing something which can potentially be hazardous. If it was something you could have simply popped in a drawer, such as a set of cufflinks or a nice pen or whatever, then you'd not be able to make such a claim for storage obviously.

 

So, the upshot of all that, is that you need to make a suitable effort to contact the guy and tell him to pick up his stuff. Try getting in touch via a social media search, his friends, relatives, old addresses etc. If you do that, then you will have been seen to have made a reasonable effort to contact the guy. But make sure there is some record of these efforts.

 

Now onto the other stuff which is of concern to you. Selling something like that M249 is regarded in law as 'supplying a Realistic Imitation Firearm'. It isn't illegal to do that, but it is a legal requirement on your part, if the sale is to be considered legal, to ensure that it is being supplied to someone for one of the following purposes:

 

A theatrical, film or TV production, or the rehearsal of one. Display in a museum. For use it in the act of serving the present Monarch. For the purpose of an historical reenactment. For the purpose of an airsoft skirmish at a site which has insurance for such activity.

 

To confirm that, you need reasonable proof, such as a letter from the TV, film or theatre company, or one from the museum, airsoft site etc. Or you can ask for the purchaser's UKARA (United Kingdom Airsoft Retail Association) registration number, which you can check against the UKARA database to see if it is current. There are other forms of proof you could seek, but they must be fairly watertight in law if the sale of a realistic imitation firearm is to be considered legal.

 

If you are at all in doubt about any of this, you can contact your local Citizen's Advice Bureau, and I would advise you to do so before going ahead with any effort to sell the stuff. You can contact them here:

 

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/index/getadvice.htm

[Russe11]

We'll I'm very sorry

Didn't mean to cause such an issue

I don't think you're causing an issue. There are just a few legal considerations involved that you may want to consider.

On the other hand, I can see no reason why you can't go to a local airsoft site and have some fun with the gun if it takes your fancy. You never know, it may turn out to be something you enjoy. You never know, you may bump into him one day and be able to shoot him with his own gun

[Shizbazki]

We'll I'm very sorry

Didn't mean to cause such an issue

 

Its not an issue at all and in fact brings about a good discussion regarding your circumstances.

 

Try and contact him and as Chock and myself say keep records that you have tried, it will be in your favour.

 

End of the day i know that this is not about money, its more the fact that you dont want this stuff in your house but it may still belong to him

 

I hope end of the day you can reach a conclusion / resolution regarding this

[Colonel Kurtz]

reading this thread was like watching an episode of the big bang theory, see how quick you nerds scared her off with unnecessary talk of legal issues

[Ian_Gere]

^^You think we should not concern ourselves with the possibility that something may be stolen? Or is it the legality of sales of RIF's which bothers you? Personally I think the VCRA is bad law and actually does nothing towards its stated aim, but nonetheless it is the law and we, as members of a responsible forum, must advise accordingly.

[Lozart]

^^You think we should not concern ourselves with the possibility that something may be stolen? Or is it the legality of sales of RIF's which bothers you? Personally I think the VCRA is bad law and actually does nothing towards its stated aim, but nonetheless it is the law and we, as members of a responsible forum, must advise accordingly.

There's nothing wrong with being responsible. Period.

 

However, in mmy opinion there are far too many members that are happy to jump to the worst possible scenario or to go straight to quoting chapter and verse in a seeming attempt to make sure everyone knows how clever they are. I know that expressing this opinion won't make me popular but I do it as a cautionary note, if we carry on treating new members like this then the forum WILL degenerate to a cliquey mess and that will harm its reputation. I've seen it happen time and again and I really don't want it to happen here.

[Chock]

It's a fair point, and whilst I agree that some of us (including me, I know) do sometimes chip in with a lot of legal stuff, quite often opening ourselves up to accusations of being barrack room lawyers, I think in this instance it was not without some justification, since there were two legal issues arising, the legality of selling a RIF and the legality of selling something which technically is not yours to sell. I suspect the girl was never going to get into GI Jane mode herself, so it was unlikely to put her off going to a skirmish, but it might conceivably kept her out of court. Taking advice is not compulsory, nor is trying to ensure that someone doesn't fall foul of the law when they ask for help, but I think it was the responsible thing to do in these circumstances.

 

I agree with Ian (and doubtless many others) as far as the VCR Act is concerned. It's a clumsy law, open to much interpretation and in many cases nigh on impossible to enforce effectively. And like many laws, it invariably ends up just being a pain in the ass for law abiding citizens, but not for criminals, who simply ignore it. But it is the devil we know (or at least the one we are stuck with), so if we wish to be regarded as responsible people, it's probably not a bad idea to be seen to be like that, particularly on a forum which anyone can read. I daresay there are plenty of young turk politicians, who would like nothing better than an excuse to get their face on TV with a crusade to ban airsofting. Not because they really have a desire to do see it gone, but rather because it is an easy popularist target which can trade easily on the ignorance of those not into it, who might imagine that we could somehow perpetrate a massacre with our toy guns. So the more I can do to not provide them with an excuse legislate our entirely harmless enjoyment out of existence, the better.

[Lozart]

Yes, I see your point but again - why does everyone feel the need to think the worst? Do you assume that everything in the classifieds section is stolen? No, I would say not. If the guns in question were nicked they would get shifted on locally not become the subject of a reasonable post on a specialist forum.

In reference to the OP, taking it at face value you have someone that has been left with a bunch of stuff by an ex. If he hasn't been bothered to get it back in two years it's safe to say that either he doesn't want it or he doesn't want the hassle of dealing with his ex to get it back. Either way it's fair to say in this instance that possession is 9 tenths of the law so all she needed was a pointer to say that she needs to make sure whoever buys the stuff has a defence and that's it. It doesn't need world war 3 yet again arguing the minutiae of the vcra.

[Colonel Kurtz]

^^You think we should not concern ourselves with the possibility that something may be stolen? Or is it the legality of sales of RIF's which bothers you? Personally I think the VCRA is bad law and actually does nothing towards its stated aim, but nonetheless it is the law and we, as members of a responsible forum, must advise accordingly.

 

No i don't think you should because that's a blurred line the OP clearly didn't need or want advice relating to, and as Lozart says, there's equal chance anything on the classifieds is nicked. If the forum is that bothered then why do you not insist on proof of purchase/ownership for all items on the classifieds?

 

In summary i expected the OP to be scared-off from the start, but by "show us ur tits" not "show us ur receipt". I am entirely un-bothered, just midly amused.

 

All your hearts were in the right place, you just get 0/10 for execution, and left staring at an empty seat opposite wondering if there's a 20minute queue for the toilets or something