NYLON combat Raiders vs metal

[JakeD200297]

Hi.

ive been looking at G and Gs CQB guns. Really like the look of em. im defo going to buy one i just have the conundrum of metal vs nylon. the new CM 300 bot really takes my fancy however i really like the look of the G and G tr4 cqb r (gen 3) which is full metal. i realize they are totally different price ranges but i have the money to get either. its just if the extra £100 is worth it for the metal and a few upgrades.

thanks JD

 

[JakeD200297]

sorry named the thread wrong should have been metal G and G CQB vs nylon

[sp00n]

Don't forget weight, lugging round a metal gun all day can become tiring.

 

I can say this, the plastic bodied are great, as long as your not swinging from it or standing on it etc

[TacMaster]

TBH unless you really really want it, the metal bodied version will be no better- a lot of metals used in airsoft replicas are pants unless you spend loads more on higher quality brands.

[Sitting Duck]

avoid G&G BOT - no I ain't got one and probably won't

reason their fet's haven't got the best reputation and much better ones out there from £10 or build ya own for £5

(plus their new FireHawk HC05 was crap so I don't think much of G&G's R&D dept lately)

 

the GC16 30th offers the best value for must have metal peeps £150 airsoftworld.net

 

short raider/firehawk are short - well yeah but being short they are not likely to bust unless you start using them as hammer/crowbar etc...

other makes of plastic guns are very brittle but the abs or polymer or whatever it is used in the CM's stands up very very well

 

if you have £150 to spend then either GC16 30th if you must have metal

or

CM18 - abs/polymer/plastic but sexy darling of a gun - crap mid cap - leave that in box coz G&G mid caps are not great like some of their fitted mosfets

 

or £123 - short raider will do perfectly also

 

people always think metal is a must - but numerous guns are polymer eg: G36, UAR, ST, ARX - sure there are loads of modern looking guns out there

 

for cqb - short raider - 233 barrel, firehawk 110, cm18 or gc16 - 275 barrel

(think that is correct aprox but don't sue me if I'm a tad out)

 

though it don't matter that much but just saying shorter guns could be better suited for tight turns/corridors than a longer mofo

but cqb most crap is under 50ft for example

[Airsoft_Mr B]

The polymer ones are fine, I reckon the internals will be practically the same.

As Tac said the metal receivers aren't great and generally pot metal (in fact will break much more easily -than the plastic ones- apparently)

[JakeD200297]

ah ok cheers for the advice. is there any other brands / guns for cqb i should look at. budgets is £200.

[JakeD200297]

ive heard alot of good stuff about kwas m4s but there hard to find with a ris system on em in the uk

[TacMaster]

KWA are more popular in the US because of different FPS restrictions, they're generally not as good as G&G's AEGs. ICS are another brand you could look at, and if you can stretch your budget there's some cheaper G&P M4s- G&P stuff is usually really nice externally and average internally, a bit like the opposite of G&G

[Sitting Duck]

The good thing about G&G's is that you have a few good model/styles options for quite a reasonable price

so you got change for batteries/charger/mags/eye pro etc....

 

ICS are nice and they start at around same price as G&G's at fire support but stuff in the £150 mark are very much the same

just with long/short barrel or different stocks, think you gotta pay a little more to get the £200 mark with some nicer models

 

I got a ICS 42W 2 -tone/clear - well a few and they are nice but most of those in that range were the same style like I said

nice gun all the same, reckon a little quicker rof than G&G out of box, clever AR release etc....

 

But I just like the G&G starter (£120-£160) range of guns, a few choices what floats ya boat but effectively all the same inside

just a CM carbine with tarted up front ends really - but all the same good robust build that work well and a dream to work on

 

As for other makes/brands - well depends on your site....

if you was playing only cqb and close cqb then it could be semi only - pistols mp5k ????

if you was playing a mixture semi/auto cqb then stubby M4 - FireHawk/Short Raider or AK74 or G36

if you was looking to say also try out mid range woodland then maybe add on slightly longer GC16 CM18 or 300+ barrels

 

(it don't mean or guarantee better range but if you got room out there then no point just using a smaller gun/pistol on larger areas)

 

You can use anything really but perhaps go for 229-300 size guns for a general all rounder gun - well just my opinion

[JakeD200297]

The good thing about G&G's is that you have a few good model/styles options for quite a reasonable price

so you got change for batteries/charger/mags/eye pro etc....

 

ICS are nice and they start at around same price as G&G's at fire support but stuff in the £150 mark are very much the same

just with long/short barrel or different stocks, think you gotta pay a little more to get the £200 mark with some nicer models

 

I got a ICS 42W 2 -tone/clear - well a few and they are nice but most of those in that range were the same style like I said

nice gun all the same, reckon a little quicker rof than G&G out of box, clever AR release etc....

 

But I just like the G&G starter (£120-£160) range of guns, a few choices what floats ya boat but effectively all the same inside

just a CM carbine with tarted up front ends really - but all the same good robust build that work well and a dream to work on

 

As for other makes/brands - well depends on your site....

if you was playing only cqb and close cqb then it could be semi only - pistols mp5k ????

if you was playing a mixture semi/auto cqb then stubby M4 - FireHawk/Short Raider or AK74 or G36

if you was looking to say also try out mid range woodland then maybe add on slightly longer GC16 CM18 or 300+ barrels

 

(it don't mean or guarantee better range but if you got room out there then no point just using a smaller gun/pistol on larger areas)

 

You can use anything really but perhaps go for 229-300 size guns for a general all rounder gun - well just my opinion

cheers for the advice.

 

 

ok yea cheers for the advice. think im going for the cm 18 looks a very good looking gun which fits my needs to a - T. also wanna get in to a bit of teching and if CMs are nice to work on then its perfect. it comes with a mid cap tho and want a hi cap really so what m4 hi caps would you suggest. Also what sites do you use im just over the border in Berks so not far from you!

[JakeD200297]

but hers my thoughts if i wanted a gun that was modifyable to chage between cqb and mid range battle its easier to lengthen a gun using a suppressor or barrel extension and a new longer inner barrel over shortening a longer barrel. am i correct in saying this.

[sp00n]

Barrel length dosn't effect range

 

Range is dictated by the hop etc

[JakeD200297]

Barrel length dosn't effect range

 

Range is dictated by the hop etc

yea i know its the internals but if i waned to alter a barrel length it would be easier to go from stock short barrel to a longer one than from a stock long barrel to a shorter one.

[sp00n]

i recently priced up a complete firehawk top end to go on my CM16 raider ..... i bought a firehawk ... it was cheaper ... and such a good gun i am keeping it as is.

 

to go from say the raider L to the normal raider, the bare minimum you need is the inner barrel, and the outer end piece.

[JakeD200297]

i recently priced up a complete firehawk top end to go on my CM16 raider ..... i bought a firehawk ... it was cheaper ... and such a good gun i am keeping it as is.

 

to go from say the raider L to the normal raider, the bare minimum you need is the inner barrel, and the outer end piece.

ok cool. what are your thoughts on king arms

[Daveheeson]

I had a firehawk and it was a cracking little gun and its still going strong for the lad who bought it from me as well

[JakeD200297]

so if the firehawk is good whats the 300 BOT like ??

[JakeD200297]

coz sitting duck says there not great but they are new like the firehawk

[sp00n]

ok cool. what are your thoughts on king arms

 

 

no idea to be honest, never had one

[TacMaster]

coz sitting duck says there not great but they are new like the firehawk

New =/= great, most new guns will only have 1 or 2 batches out of the factory and may still have issues that need sorting out. I believe G&G do this fairly quickly with their more popular models.

[n1ckh]

 

 

no idea to be honest, never had one

Only dealings I've had with king arms is there M4 mid caps

 

They work better in both my M4's & my G36 with the M4 magwell adapter

[Airsoft_Mr B]

The BOT is most likely gonna be the same as the other Combat Machines, except you're getting a KeyMod rail (limits your attachment options because the rails for them can be harder to find / more expensive)

It also comes with a MOSFET but the guns are let down by them as G&G ones are notoriously bad.

[Sitting Duck]

I "think" the BOT is still polymer/abs and about £170-ish

so when you compare that to a £150 metal GC16 - you are paying more for plastic receiver & a so-so mosfet at best

 

The CM18 is a sexy looking gun and perhaps is one of my favourites

said before shame they didn't do a 30th CM18 or Raider instead of the 26 30th edition

(GC16 (front wired) classic style handguard so to speak is great but should of done a Raider/CM18 (rear wired) with RIS/rails)

I'd have paid a bit more for a metal Raider/CM18

 

Raiders are great starters @ £123 I do think the long is perhaps too long @ 357 and the short is uuhhmm perhaps a tiny bit too short @ 233

and I love the 275 GC16 & CM18 as I feel they are perfect all rounders imho

 

FireHawk's are great headturners - dinky mofo's that you will always get comments - usually:

 

"F*ck me that's loud"

 

I will admit it can get on your nerves and also your team mates too all day long - especially in echo places like cqb tunnels etc....

But wtf - at least ya team will know if you are still in game defending/attacking on other side

 

I do not get commision for G&G and I don't think the sun shines out of their ar$e either

I totally slate the new DSG FireHawk out of the box, and even with tweaks I'm unsure as to if she will really last long term

I strongly urge anybody to think seriously about getting a DSG FireHawk - they are that bad and no semi and pi$$poor DSG performance amongst poor crafstmanship in the build etc........

 

Normal FireHawk's are worth considering, they are a good gun - with semi and if you wanted to you can make them quite quick

without needing a DSG build - you could hit 20+ on 7.4v, even higher if you used higher speed 12 13 or 14:1 gears

plus a rewire fet & a stronger neodym motor but go easy as you approach 30rps to avoid damage to piston/box

 

The BOT I seriously doubt if I will buy, nor the other CQB gun they do - that retails at about £165 - £170

 

The DSG FH was over the £150 mark I set for a CM (Airsoftworld do CM18 @ £150 others do it for £155)

 

So taking into account the poor HC05 DSG plus the track record of G&G fet's and over the £150 limit - nah I don't think so

 

Once you go over that £150-£170 and if ukara'd etc.... you can start to get some nice metal guns

eg: BI-8001 - now this needs a tweak here n there but is nice possible next step up gun

 

This is just one example but is one I have recently treated myself to though is still to be tweaked properly

I doubt if I would buy a higher end G&G TopTech gun at this moment in time - but that might change perhaps

On the other hand I am not sure about some of their new stuff coming out with super duper electrics

(more stuff to go wrong and not G&G's strong point in the past perhaps)

The split gearbox - well has been out a while in ICS especially

new bb loading system - hmmm kinda means these newer guns may have special bespoke parts rather than TM compatible parts

I'm old school - love the mechanics of the box and its workings etc.....

 

That all said my own feelings is get a G&G starter you like and just use it out of the box for a while......

After say 6-12 months you may notice the performance has dropped a little

perfectly normal as springs lose tension seals wear etc.....

THEN consider having her serviced/tweaked by somebody or ONLY if you feel confident and can set aside time

should you consider doing it yourself - though if you have some common sense you should be fine

first time is always the worst - but they are very nice guns to work on so I can say they are not as bad as my first few guns

 

Read up as always - ask loads, take pictures & above time and you should be fine

a little service tweak at first - correct AOE seals/nozzle maybe new m100 spring

then later maybe you can look to upgrade her if you so wish (motor faster gears fet etc....)

 

keep it sensible - I really do think a gun firing between 20-30 is enough for most peeps in UK

The faster they fire the shorter it will last - in general terms, also the CM is not a CNC gearbox - so don't go real nutz

 

you could replace the small tamiya on there with a deans connector asap - but keep battery to 7.4v lipo

(do not go for 11.1v lipo without a fet - in fact if you do the upgrades later on you probably won't really need a 11.1v)

[JakeD200297]

I "think" the BOT is still polymer/abs and about £170-ish

so when you compare that to a £150 metal GC16 - you are paying more for plastic receiver & a so-so mosfet at best

 

The CM18 is a sexy looking gun and perhaps is one of my favourites

said before shame they didn't do a 30th CM18 or Raider instead of the 26 30th edition

(GC16 (front wired) classic style handguard so to speak is great but should of done a Raider/CM18 (rear wired) with RIS/rails)

I'd have paid a bit more for a metal Raider/CM18

 

Raiders are great starters @ £123 I do think the long is perhaps too long @ 357 and the short is uuhhmm perhaps a tiny bit too short @ 233

and I love the 275 GC16 & CM18 as I feel they are perfect all rounders imho

 

FireHawk's are great headturners - dinky mofo's that you will always get comments - usually:

 

"F*ck me that's loud"

 

I will admit it can get on your nerves and also your team mates too all day long - especially in echo places like cqb tunnels etc....

But wtf - at least ya team will know if you are still in game defending/attacking on other side

 

I do not get commision for G&G and I don't think the sun shines out of their ar$e either

I totally slate the new DSG FireHawk out of the box, and even with tweaks I'm unsure as to if she will really last long term

I strongly urge anybody to think seriously about getting a DSG FireHawk - they are that bad and no semi and pi$$poor DSG performance amongst poor crafstmanship in the build etc........

 

Normal FireHawk's are worth considering, they are a good gun - with semi and if you wanted to you can make them quite quick

without needing a DSG build - you could hit 20+ on 7.4v, even higher if you used higher speed 12 13 or 14:1 gears

plus a rewire fet & a stronger neodym motor but go easy as you approach 30rps to avoid damage to piston/box

 

The BOT I seriously doubt if I will buy, nor the other CQB gun they do - that retails at about £165 - £170

 

The DSG FH was over the £150 mark I set for a CM (Airsoftworld do CM18 @ £150 others do it for £155)

 

So taking into account the poor HC05 DSG plus the track record of G&G fet's and over the £150 limit - nah I don't think so

 

Once you go over that £150-£170 and if ukara'd etc.... you can start to get some nice metal guns

eg: BI-8001 - now this needs a tweak here n there but is nice possible next step up gun

 

This is just one example but is one I have recently treated myself to though is still to be tweaked properly

I doubt if I would buy a higher end G&G TopTech gun at this moment in time - but that might change perhaps

On the other hand I am not sure about some of their new stuff coming out with super duper electrics

(more stuff to go wrong and not G&G's strong point in the past perhaps)

The split gearbox - well has been out a while in ICS especially

new bb loading system - hmmm kinda means these newer guns may have special bespoke parts rather than TM compatible parts

I'm old school - love the mechanics of the box and its workings etc.....

 

That all said my own feelings is get a G&G starter you like and just use it out of the box for a while......

After say 6-12 months you may notice the performance has dropped a little

perfectly normal as springs lose tension seals wear etc.....

THEN consider having her serviced/tweaked by somebody or ONLY if you feel confident and can set aside time

should you consider doing it yourself - though if you have some common sense you should be fine

first time is always the worst - but they are very nice guns to work on so I can say they are not as bad as my first few guns

 

Read up as always - ask loads, take pictures & above time and you should be fine

a little service tweak at first - correct AOE seals/nozzle maybe new m100 spring

then later maybe you can look to upgrade her if you so wish (motor faster gears fet etc....)

 

keep it sensible - I really do think a gun firing between 20-30 is enough for most peeps in UK

The faster they fire the shorter it will last - in general terms, also the CM is not a CNC gearbox - so don't go real nutz

 

you could replace the small tamiya on there with a deans connector asap - but keep battery to 7.4v lipo

(do not go for 11.1v lipo without a fet - in fact if you do the upgrades later on you probably won't really need a 11.1v)

ok yea cheers for the advice. im getting my gun off airsoft world and they have a deal on for the king kong 2014 burst fire wizard mosfet for an extra tenner so a third of the price. im defo gunna get it with my combat raider so the fet on the 300 bot wont actually matter because im buying a better fet to replace it and if i burns out or im not happy with it i can solder the new one in and surely a fet is better than no fet t all??. my problem with the cm 18 is that the black and tan will look crap with a third 2 tone colour on it (im not ukarra'd yet) an i dont want to spoil a great looking gun.