Limits

[Ecky1972]

right new to this after some confirmation on limits when sites have limit say for dmr's and snipers of 400fps and 500fps do you have to go on the .20g bb's rating or the size you are using say .40 as my understanding is the heavier the BB the slower it travels

 

[Lozart]

When a site states a limit they are usually referring to the muzzle velocity as tested with a 0.2g BB.

 

There will now follow a torrent of posts telling you that they should be using Joules.

[Adolf Hamster]

when a site quotes a limit as "fps" they don't mean raw velocity, they mean velocity (in feet per second) using a 0.2g bb.

 

this is a statement of kinetic energy, but instead of using joules it's using a convoluted unit that mixes metric and imperial and sounds like it's just a velocity measurement to really confuse people. kinda the same way you fill your car with 50 litres of petrol but measure the fuel economy in miles per gallon. we just have to be awkward in this country.

 

so in the case of a 400"fps" limit, 400fps on 0.2g = 1.49J of energy, a 0.4g bb fired with 1.49J of energy will be travelling roughly 282fps

 

fortunately, there are calculators available to help out: https://www.zerooneairsoft.com/airsoft_fps_calculator

 

5 minutes ago, Lozart said:

There will now follow a torrent of posts telling you that they should be using Joules.

 

 

just because you've said that i reckon we should use obol-barleycorns per microjiffy

 

and yes, apparently the jiffy is actually a measurement of time equal to 1/65,536 of a second.....

[Impulse]

Yeah, generally if a site lists fps as the unit of measurement for guns, it's on a 0.2g BB.

 

Also they should be using joules

[EDcase]

All fps quoted by sites or specs of airsoft guns in retailers are always measured with 0.2g BBs.

Using heavier weight will result in less speed but roughly the same energy. (Look up 'Joule Creep' for more complication)

[Rogerborg]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

There will now follow a torrent of posts telling you that they should be using Joules.

 

This post, right here, is why everybody should be thinking and talking in terms of Joules.

 

Because I guarantee you that there are folk turning up spunking 0.36g at 350fps and when they get asked it they're "Using twos" at chrono, will say "Yeah, sure, I guess."

 

If you're assuming that any given player has the remotest clue what they're doing, well, see this thread, and Ex-Workmate Eddie just got tugged for describing his green gas pistol as CO2, because, I dunno, CO2 is a gas, innit, and he puts gas in it.

[Shamal]

41 minutes ago, EDcase said:

 (Look up 'Joule Creep' for more complication)

As Halloween is fast approaching,maybe we could call it Ghoul Creep?

 

OK,OK I know pointless post with no substance. Lol

 

Regards

[Jedi_Master]

17 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Because I guarantee you that there are folk turning up spunking 0.36g at 350fps and when they get asked it they're "Using twos" at chrono, will say "Yeah, sure, I guess."

 

Which is why all sites should load an empty magazine (belonging to the player) with the site's own 0.2g BBs at chrono. 

[AirSniper]

1 hour ago, Lozart said:

When a site states a limit they are usually referring to the muzzle velocity as tested with a 0.2g BB.

 

There will now follow a torrent of posts telling you that they should be using Joules.

 

That may be true but you have to understand the reason.

While fps is the accepted measurement, it is not a measure in terms of joules.

 

Measuring joules over fps is more accurate because it will easily show up a hot gun.

 

All the airsoft sites I visit all use Joules as it is the safer way of ensuring that someone is not trying to subvert the chronograph process and will be ousted.

 

While joules is the energy in the BB that it carries, on a 0.2g the difference of 0.05g on a BB affects if fps but not the joules, it just means that the BB being slightly heavier is able to retain its initial energy much better and on impact, deliver a bigger punch.

This sort of thing is the sort of ballistics thing that you would pick up if you were a target shooter, pest control, conservation, hunting and other shooting sports, also applies to archery and any other machine or equipment that throws a projectile, the joules input will determine the fps and the amount of energy on impact over distance as the amount of energy expended in the flight of a BB is why they can drop well before their target and that can be anything from the BB itself, the humidity, temperature, if its raining, etc.

There is also the aspect of the game where the line of sportsmanship is crossed and people intentionally seeking maximum power to just inflict pain on people, ruins the game. This weekend there was a cheater running at least 0.28 or 0.3 on a 0.2 site, people were complaining, I took many head shots which I am not bothered by normally, these left wounds and drew blood which does happen from time to time but not lime what team mates were commenting on about, they looked bad.

It depends on what kind of game you intend to play and what you play your game with, do you cheat and ignore the rules or cheat and hurt people. The choice you make does relate to what sort of person you are in psychological terms.

What I am trying to say is running hot guns and higher weight BB's than the site allows takes all the fun out the sport, especially if children play like my son who is as big as an adult but only 14, he gets mag dumped from time to time.

At some point Airsoft will have to clean its name up by removing and banning all bad actors in the sport and hobby (for many).

 

 

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

1 minute ago, Jedi_Master said:

 

Which is why all sites should load an empty magazine (belonging to the player) with the site's own 0.2g BBs at chrono. 

 

except gbbr's, hpa's and bolt actions

[AirSniper]

7 minutes ago, Jedi_Master said:

 

Which is why all sites should load an empty magazine (belonging to the player) with the site's own 0.2g BBs at chrono. 

Exactly.

 

[Impulse]

17 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

except gbbr's, hpa's and bolt actions

 

So... pretty much all the guns I use? ?

[Druid799]

4 hours ago, Lozart said:

There will now follow a torrent of posts telling you that they should be using Joules.

 

[Rogerborg]

14 hours ago, Jedi_Master said:

 

Which is why all sites should load an empty magazine (belonging to the player) with the site's own 0.2g BBs at chrono. 

 

Sure, if by 0.2g you mean 0.36g or heavier.  Because it's not 1999.

 

I'd even argue that CQB sites with a 0.25g or so limit should test with heavier BBs, because, as above, the assumption that players have any idea what they are doing, or would care if they did, is wildly optimistic.  If they're going to load heavy BBs despite being told over and over not to, at least try and ensure that they won't be shooting hot with them.

 

11 hours ago, Druid799 said:

 

 

This can all end when fps dinosaurs unconditionally surrender to the Master Metric of Joules.  Resistance just prolongs the conflict and costs millions of lives. ?

[Lozart]

16 hours ago, Lozart said:

When a site states a limit they are usually referring to the muzzle velocity as tested with a 0.2g BB.

 

There will now follow a torrent of posts telling you that they should be using Joules.

 

[Druid799]

1 hour ago, Rogerborg said:

This can all end when fps dinosaurs unconditionally surrender to the Master Metric of Joules.  Resistance just prolongs the conflict and costs millions of lives. ?

Never ! we shall all burn in the eternal flames of damnation , stubbornness and spite ! ???

[EDcase]

Or just use the tried and tested method...

 

Shoot at a drinks can:

If it goes through the sides its OK

If it goes through the base then its hot

 

?

[Tommikka]

44 minutes ago, EDcase said:

Or just use the tried and tested method...

 

Shoot at a drinks can:

If it goes through the sides its OK

If it goes through the base then its hot

 

?

Or magic chrono tree

 

If you can’t reach the tree then you need to ramp up the power

If you hit the tree you’re good

If the tree falls down you’re hot

[Impulse]

18 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

Or magic chrono tree

 

If you can’t reach the tree then you need to ramp up the power

If you hit the tree you’re good

If the tree falls down you’re hot

 

If a tree falls down in the forest but there's no marshall to hear it, is a gun really hot?

[Adolf Hamster]

23 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

If you can’t reach the tree then you place a hit marker on the nearest player

If you hit the tree you place a hit marker on the nearest player

If the tree falls down you place a hit marker on the nearest player and call out that player for cheating

 

just in case any youtubers are watching and weren't sure what he meant by that.

[Tommikka]

46 minutes ago, Impulse said:

 

If a tree falls down in the forest but there's no marshall to hear it, is a gun really hot?

That depends on if there is a bear there to shit itself because the tree got shot down 

[Jedi_Master]

5 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

Sure, if by 0.2g you mean 0.36g or heavier.  Because it's not 1999.

 

Hey, I have embraced the 21st Century and moved onto those white BBs instead of the yellow 0.12g ones

[Rogerborg]

14 minutes ago, Jedi_Master said:

Hey, I have embraced the 21st Century and moved onto those white BBs instead of the yellow 0.12g ones

 

You'll never get a job doing product demos for BBgunz4less with that attitude.