Roman Kurmaz replicas

[Allen428]

Just received my DPM Field shirt I ordered and really disappointed. The craftsmanship is excellent but the material used is subpar, washed out/faded. I dread to think what it will look like after it’s been washed a few times.

 

For contrast the shirt on the right is a issued DPM shirt which has been washed multiple times.

 

Anyone else had any issues with stuff ordered from him? In my case a complete waste of money.

[EvilMonkee]

Not sure what you are going for here?  Is it meant to be a repro of something or a DPM shirt done in a particular cut? TBH it looks exactly like old DPM material I have hanging in my closet.  I am also confused by why you would want such an item when DPM shirts are 10 for a penny...Elaboration required!

[Tommikka]

That doesn’t loom ‘faded’ to me, but a different set of DPM

 

The colours have changed over the years, can vary by material and also may be a lighter or darker design such as ‘basic’ European DPM, jungle, etc

 

 

https://www.kommandoblog.com/2018/03/06/expedition-into-dpm-variants/

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Not seen the funky Indonesian stuff before.   

 

There are loads more starting with hand painted Dennison smocks in WWII to all of the Indian/Nepalese etc patterns. 

 

DPM, flecktarn and lizard are a minefield, there are loads of designs.   

[Allen428]

8 hours ago, Tommikka said:

That doesn’t loom ‘faded’ to me, but a different set of DPM

 

The colours have changed over the years, can vary by material and also may be a lighter or darker design such as ‘basic’ European DPM, jungle, etc

 

 

https://www.kommandoblog.com/2018/03/06/expedition-into-dpm-variants/

It’s British DPM.

 

8 hours ago, EvilMonkee said:

Not sure what you are going for here?  Is it meant to be a repro of something or a DPM shirt done in a particular cut? TBH it looks exactly like old DPM material I have hanging in my closet.  I am also confused by why you would want such an item when DPM shirts are 10 for a penny...Elaboration required!

British DPM in a Crye G3 Field shirt cut. I’ve had loads of DPM stuff over 25+ years, the material on this is like some cheap kids camo you would buy from the market.

8 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Not seen the funky Indonesian stuff before.   

 

There are loads more starting with hand painted Dennison smocks in WWII to all of the Indian/Nepalese etc patterns. 

 

DPM, flecktarn and lizard are a minefield, there are loads of designs.   

It’s British DPM.

[Tommikka]

1 hour ago, Allen428 said:

It’s British DPM.

.

The first 4 in the link are all British woodland DPM

My point being that there have been many changes, and also between each garment - jacket (which normal people call a shirt), jacket (that is a jacket), smock etc and intended environment (UK/Europe, tropical jungle etc) there are also differences 

Then just different contractors and different production runs 

 

The primary colour difference in your photo isn’t due to fade. Though genuine DPM that he has used will be surplus and could be issued or unissued

Issued stock will have gone through many washes and will show on the edges of stitched areas such as pockets etc, unissued will have been sat on a QMs shelf mostly in a dark storeroom until it’s sent back

 

The Army issues 3 sets, so even a soldier who is in barracks does a wash run twice a week (unless they have stocked up by giving storemen extra haribo or raided the drying room if Pte Smith hasn’t put their name and number on the label)

 

Attached is a genuine jacket with a similar colour to yours, it is used and in the closeups you can see the fade, but it was never as dark as your other one

Both of yours are genuine but different ‘editons’

[Lozart]

16 hours ago, Allen428 said:

Just received my DPM Field shirt I ordered and really disappointed. The craftsmanship is excellent but the material used is subpar, washed out/faded. I dread to think what it will look like after it’s been washed a few times.

 

For contrast the shirt on the right is a issued DPM shirt which has been washed multiple times.

 

Anyone else had any issues with stuff ordered from him? In my case a complete waste of money.

 

It does look a bit "washed out", at the risk of sounding facetious - what was the description when you bought it and have you tried contacting Roman about this?

[Allen428]

6 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

The first 4 in the link are all British woodland DPM

My point being that there have been many changes, and also between each garment - jacket (which normal people call a shirt), jacket (that is a jacket), smock etc and intended environment (UK/Europe, tropical jungle etc) there are also differences 

Then just different contractors and different production runs 

 

The primary colour difference in your photo isn’t due to fade. Though genuine DPM that he has used will be surplus and could be issued or unissued

Issued stock will have gone through many washes and will show on the edges of stitched areas such as pockets etc, unissued will have been sat on a QMs shelf mostly in a dark storeroom until it’s sent back

 

The Army issues 3 sets, so even a soldier who is in barracks does a wash run twice a week (unless they have stocked up by giving storemen extra haribo or raided the drying room if Pte Smith hasn’t put their name and number on the label)

 

Attached is a genuine jacket with a similar colour to yours, it is used and in the closeups you can see the fade, but it was never as dark as your other one

Both of yours are genuine but different ‘editons’

I know there’s been many changes, I’ve been serving since the early 90’s. Had plenty of those jackets myself and still have some.
Plus there not both genuine the one on the left has been custom made by Kurmaz Gear from a material roll. 

2 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

It does look a bit "washed out", at the risk of sounding facetious - what was the description when you bought it and have you tried contacting Roman about this?

Custom made G3 Field shirt in British DPM. Here’s his reply when I messaged him after I received it.

 

hi

unfortunately i`m not a fabric manufacturer, i use that what available. Very difficult to find dpm at all and i have only few sources for this fabric. So available as is, sorry

[Lozart]

6 minutes ago, Allen428 said:

I know there’s been many changes, I’ve been serving since the early 90’s. Had plenty of those jackets myself and still have some.
Plus there not both genuine the one on the left has been custom made by Kurmaz Gear from a material roll. 

Custom made G3 Field shirt in British DPM. Here’s his reply when I messaged him after I received it.

 

hi

unfortunately i`m not a fabric manufacturer, i use that what available. Very difficult to find dpm at all and i have only few sources for this fabric. So available as is, sorry

 

 

Well...that's a bit disappointing. I know it's not what you want to hear but it sounds like you're a bit stuck here. Without asking to see a sample of the fabric he intended to use before he started it's pretty much up to him to use what he has/can get hold of. It IS a British DPM pattern material, it just looks a bit faded. All I can suggest is pursuing him along the lines of it not being what you were expecting but I think that caveat emptor will be the overriding guidance in this case.

[Allen428]

2 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

 

Well...that's a bit disappointing. I know it's not what you want to hear but it sounds like you're a bit stuck here. Without asking to see a sample of the fabric he intended to use before he started it's pretty much up to him to use what he has/can get hold of. It IS a British DPM pattern material, it just looks a bit faded. All I can suggest is pursuing him along the lines of it not being what you were expecting but I think that caveat emptor will be the overriding guidance in this case.

Yes my fault, after hearing positive reviews of his work I thought he would have used a better material. I guess the material he uses for the more modern camo’s is probably better quality. I can’t fault the workmanship it is beautifully made just the material used.

[Lozart]

10 minutes ago, Allen428 said:

Yes my fault, after hearing positive reviews of his work I thought he would have used a better material. I guess the material he uses for the more modern camo’s is probably better quality. I can’t fault the workmanship it is beautifully made just the material used.

 

The modern stuff is just easier to get hold of so he has more choice I guess. I mean... it still looks good, just not "parade square fresh" if you will.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Never heard of a tailor using completely faded material before.  

 

'Here we go Sir, it's a beautifully crafted suit of completely knackered Worstead. '

 

Plenty of reasonable DPM available from China surely? 

[Tackle]

While I agree there are plenty of variations in issued dpm kit, I'd expect much better than that from a reputable maker of custom kit, surely he has enough experience in camo materials to have spotted that very obvious fade issues, & as such should have contacted the client (op) to give him the option as to whether to proceed with the job ?

would have been better to butcher a couple of genuine (non faded) issue shirts to get the end result than use that ?, agree with the op's comment that it looks like the material you'd buy off a market stall so your little sprogs can play dress up.

[Lozart]

1 hour ago, Tackle said:

While I agree there are plenty of variations in issued dpm kit, I'd expect much better than that from a reputable maker of custom kit, surely he has enough experience in camo materials to have spotted that very obvious fade issues, & as such should have contacted the client (op) to give him the option as to whether to proceed with the job ?

would have been better to butcher a couple of genuine (non faded) issue shirts to get the end result than use that ?, agree with the op's comment that it looks like the material you'd buy off a market stall so your little sprogs can play dress up.

 

I agree, he should have at least sent a picture of the available material but if that's all he can get then it's probably what he assumes everything on the market is like.

 

Might be worth the OP posting in the Lindnerhof group on Facebook to see if anyone else has the same issue https://www.facebook.com/groups/807151342686715

2 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Plenty of reasonable DPM available from China surely? 

 

Probably, but where does Roman source his materials? Probably not AliExpress.

[Tackle]

@Allen428 if you don't mind me asking, how much did the shirt cost ? 

42 minutes ago, Lozart said:

 

Probably, but where does Roman source his materials? Probably not AliExpress.

Shouldn't be an issue, Ive bought a few dpm bits recently, as my old kit appears to have "shrunk" (??), some issue & some knockoff, & even the knockoff kit was spot on for pattern & colour, so the material is out there ? 

[Allen428]

31 minutes ago, Tackle said:

@Allen428 if you don't mind me asking, how much did the shirt cost ? 

Shouldn't be an issue, Ive bought a few dpm bits recently, as my old kit appears to have "shrunk" (??), some issue & some knockoff, & even the knockoff kit was spot on for pattern & colour, so the material is out there ? 

130 Euro, will stick with my issue DPM clothing instead, I just wanted a DPM G3 cut field shirt. Lesson learned.

[Druid799]

 

5 hours ago, Allen428 said:

Hi ,

unfortunately i`m not a fabric manufacturer, i use that what available. Very difficult to find dpm at all and i have only few sources for this fabric. So available as is, sorry

That’s a BS excuse , which is pointless as that’s NOT your problem . You entered into a contract with a retailer with an expectation of an acceptable level of quality , that shirt is well below that level . Can’t get decent quality material ? Tuff not your problem , if the seller can only get a sub par quality of material then they don’t sell products made from it OR they inform the customer to give them the option to cancel or not , that’s your choice to make not theirs .

Only result I’d want is either a full refund and return to them or a very substantial partial refund to keep it .

[Lozart]

3 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Only result I’d want is either a full refund and return to them or a very substantial partial refund to keep it .

 

Given the cost of it I would tend to agree but that's for the OP to take up with Roman.

[Tackle]

Yep, at that price I'd definitely back it. 

[EvilMonkee]

TBH whilst a little sympathetic, the piss taking side of me blames the OP for wanting such an abomination as a G3 cut shirt in DPM in the first place.....

[Allen428]

5 hours ago, Lozart said:

 

I agree, he should have at least sent a picture of the available material but if that's all he can get then it's probably what he assumes everything on the market is like.

 

Might be worth the OP posting in the Lindnerhof group on Facebook to see if anyone else has the same issue https://www.facebook.com/groups/807151342686715

 

Probably, but where does Roman source his materials? Probably not AliExpress.

I tried posting on the FB page yesterday and shock horror he hasn’t/won’t approved my post.

[Tackle]

56 minutes ago, Allen428 said:

I tried posting on the FB page yesterday and shock horror he hasn’t/won’t approved my post.

Assuming your post was negative regarding the quality of the shirt, highly unlikely he's ever gonna approve the post.

is there no option to pm him ?, maybe include the URL link to this this thread, that way he'll see that you've made a reasonable attempt to allay or confirm your concerns, we've agreed that it's not up to his reputable usual high standards.

while he may not like it, he needs to suck it up & resolve it in a professional manner.

if he won't, where is he based ?, & how did you pay ?, obviously paypal would be great for a dispute but failing that initiate a chargeback on your card via your bank or cc provider.

[Shamal]

44 minutes ago, Tackle said:

 

if he won't, where is he based ?

Yeah we will pay him a little visit! ?

 

Well Mr Tackle will. Unfortunately I'm busy that day ?  

 

Reg

 

[mightyjebus]

can't fault Roman's work as I have a few of his sets which are all a good as my Crye stuff. From the OP picture I'm guessing that the material used is Russian DPM and not British DPM. A giveaway would be how thin it looks. It could also be some of the DPM coming out of China but the colours on that are usually a bit more vibrant. Roman is based in the Ukraine so getting the Russian DPM probably wouldn't be too hard.

 

Getting a refund is either doing a paypal claim for goods not fit for purpose or just sucking it up since he did supply a top in DPM but not the DPM you were hoping for. With hindsight asking for a picture of the material he will be using would have been a good idea but I've never done that as I've trusted his work and reputation, like you.

 

on a slightly different tangent, that DPM he supplied looks a lot like the DPM I was issued pre CS95 after a few washes and a few rounds with the iron (but i still think it's the Russian stuff).

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

Coonen Watts and Stone source about 95% of UK issue kit from China, so decent cloth isn't a problem, and even the cheapest Kombat UK stuff gets the colour shades right (and that's just generic Chinese cheapies with a label specified in the UK).

 

If S95 or whatever is specified  there's material around.  

 

As for Russian Kukla DPM, that's made in more than one shade in three or four different versions.   At least one is very close to a UK pattern.  

 

No real excuse IMO, hope Allen gets some recompense.