Acceptable rates of fire

[Enid_Puceflange]

Hi folks

Having had our last game of the year today, there was a good turn out of first time players using site rental guns (JG G36’s if it matters)

There was the usual mixture of folks using aeg’s, snipers and some HPA players.

now normally I’m a live & let live attitude kinda guy, but I did see a few of the new player heads go down after lunchtime in the last few games, had a quick chat with them and they commented on the significant difference between the site guns and some of the regulars aeg’s V the hpa players

The hpa guns were easily having a ROF of circa 35-40 a second, and in the game areas where full auto was allowed due to engagement rules, they were simply suppressing the new players with their ROF & slightly aggressive play style.

 

The site doesn’t (yet) have a ROF cap, but that may start next year

 

I have to add , this is an outdoor woodland site,  NOT an urban or CQB / indoor

 

1: is it fair to cap hpa players play style / ROF ?

2: What’s an acceptable ROF to allow “fair game play”?

 

Answers on a postcard please to:

Grumpy Old Man

Wants to see the new player’s encouraged 

Not a one time player never to be seen again street

?

Edited December 19, 2021 by Enid_Puceflange

[Tackle]

As a fellow grumpy old cnut, I'd be happy if gats were kept stock rof, or even better would be that they matched their real steel counterparts. 

I cringe when I'm on site & I hear gats running at a ridiculous rof, & usually take an instant personal dislike to their small dicked owners ?

[Stratton Oakmont]

Like all sports it’s evolving to the most exaggerated version.

as an ex hpa user there’s no doubt that if you value low gearbox stress high rof, with near silence over 10m semi auto then nothing comes close.

if you just value hosing/winning then Hpa is for you.

i sold my hpa rig as truth be known it’s more fun using low cap gbb’S and noisy rattle ngrs.

when I found myself grabbing my cyma galil over my hpa I knew I was done with it.

i’d ban them now as I don’t think they help the sport and tend to bring out the worst in players 

[Enid_Puceflange]

I’m happy running my stock TM Ak recoil (clunky & noisy thing) with 80 rnd mags and my gbbr with 40 rnd mags

Neither of which get to the mid teens with their ROF

Going to discuss further with Marshall’s & Site Owner in the new year

But a quick chat about it in the afternoon there was nodding heads with circa 20 rps being fast enough

A site not to far from us is running Semi Auto Sundays, I like the sound of that!

 

But gimme some feedback, what’s a happy limit for safety & encouragement?

 

[Dratsab]

Personally I have no issues with high ROF in and of itself. But when someone is slapping a 2000 round box mag on a 60 rps assault rifle that might be a problem. If someone wants a bullet hose fine but they should have to deal with the inconvenience of changing mags. 

 

My AEG hits 20+ RPS on a 7.4v lipo and it's great for getting heads down but it burns through mags frighteningly fast I will slap an 11.1v in there at some point and that should get me around 35 RPS but I'm not the sort to run box mags. If I want to get someone's head down it's great but I shouldn't be able to keep it there without having to change mags indefinitely.

 

In summary high ROF is fine but you should suffer the drawbacks that it should bring.

 

Just my 2p

[Badgerlicious]

My local site is pretty dense woodland has a 25rps limit. I think it's very fair, and kind of frightening to be on the end of. If you can't hit someone with 25rps, you may need to see a doctor for your Parkinson's 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Badgerlicious
things

[alxndrhll]

It's all part of the hobby nowadays, unless all sites are starting to put matching limits on it I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference... especially if the intent is to favour newer players. All it stands to do is give them an unrealistic idea of what's out there. Sure this site in particularly might become somewhat of a safe haven for them, but I can't see a single site maintaining folks interest for too long. It's almost like shielding the new folks from what regular game days are like, and setting expectations outside of where they probably should be for folks that might ultimately be looking to invest in a new hobby.

 

I don't really see much of a point of sites being overly controlling over what folks use, as long as it's safe. And that's ultimately when lines should be looking at being drawn, not because a few newbies heads are dropping because they don't think their rental gnus are keeping up... because lets face it, rental gnus only just about keep up with other rental gnus. And besides, most sites struggle to wrap their heads around chronoing properly in a timely fashion let along adding RoF checking into the mix.

 

In terms of actual advice, I wouldn't dick about making any site rules around it. Just take it up with individuals if you feel they've got something excessive going on. Most RIFs running a high RoF have a way of adjusting it fairly easily, be that an FCU for HPA or a MOSFET in an AEG. If they refuse then it's up to the site owners how they wish to proceed.

Edited December 19, 2021 by alxndrhll

[BigStew]

High ROF is not the issue ( i don't see the point you can still suppress with low ROF and save ammo) but the player them selves as only one person is having fun when some one gets lit up with 60rd and the person having fun is an arsehole. site I play at doesn't have rof restrictions, but if you're spamming people words will be had.

[Impulse]

12 minutes ago, Badgerlicious said:

My local site is pretty dense woodland has a 25rps limit. I think it's very fair, and kind of frightening to be on the end of. If you can't hit someone with 25rps, you may need to see a doctor for your Parkinson's 

 

Pretty much stole the words from my mouth. 25rps is more than enough and is a lot of brrrrrrrrrt. I don't see why you would need more.

 

40 minutes ago, Stratton Oakmont said:

i’d ban them now as I don’t think they help the sport and tend to bring out the worst in players 

 

I disagree, but I also think HPA is bad for the majority of its uses and I'll never use a typical 1J full-auto HPA assault rifle style of gun. Where I think HPA shines is in sneaky sniper guns, whether they're a BASR, DMR or a 1J sneaky gun, all of which are by design probably not going to be full auto, because full auto HPA is a lot easier to hear than semi-auto HPA.

[Badgerlicious]

26 minutes ago, alxndrhll said:

but I can't see a single site maintaining folks interest for too long

Possibly, but it at least acts as an easing into the sport, rather than in the deep end in a confusing day of being overshot and frustrated. And I would hope someone branching out to other sites would be aware of what can be done with airsoft guns. I'm not as against it on sites that can separate walk-ons from rentals...

 

...but when you're shooting upwards of 8 bbs within human reaction time, you are overshooting people. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Badgerlicious

[Tackle]

I generally only use single shot anyway, & have played a few game days where only single shot was allowed, & I gotta say it rocked, made people think about their gameplay, didn't stop some from spamming their trigger though, but still way way better than the usual hose fest. 

Thing is, most players do almost everything to emulate what they believe to be a combat scenario, from load outs & webbing etc, & then some feel the need to turn their gats in to hypersonic sewing machines ffs, & any modicum of realism is blown out of the window. 

I consider what we do to be a sport, in some form anyway, but in other recognised sports there's generally an expectation or requirement of a reasonably level playing field, you'd never get away with such extreme modifications to your playing kit. 

I'd like to see gamedays catering for specific setups OCCASIONALLY, a day where run wot ya brung high speed setups with box mags are OK, or single shot days, or gas only days etc etc, maybe one gameday in three ?, & the rest of the time I'd expect a fairly "normal" set of rules to govern what's acceptable ? 

[RostokMcSpoons]

I've just come back from a game where there were a few HPA gunners.  I think they were all running mid cap mags so no real problem with the total amount of BB's flying around but it's noticeable there's some (good natured) chuntering in the ranks if/when they all end up on one team because it instantly throws out any balance.

 

And judging by the line of bee stings running up my thigh from a burst I took at 10+ metres, I don't think the regulators are left untouched after the chrono in the morning.  That did piss me off

[Adolf Hamster]

i have in the past dabbled with the brrrt side of things and tbh whilst you can punch through undergrowth that a slower rof couldn't, it's otherwise of limited utility, certainly if it's being acheived at the expense of accuracy. it wasn't long at all before i was voluntarily dialing it back because it was difficult to not send more than the necessary amount of plastic downrange.

 

generally the figure that i've heard most sites implementing is 30rps, which tbh could still be argued to be on the fast side, and as long as it's applied equally (as in any gun is limited not just hpa) then i don't see it as a particularly unfair rule.

 

with that said, folks can still be a dick and overshoot with a lower rate of fire, it just takes longer.

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

I saw a chap running HPA get a right bollicking for overshooting people.  

 

When the marshal walked off, having not allowed him a word in edge ways, he showed me that his home built space rifle thing was semi only...   He stuck his bottom lip out and said that he liked to tinker with HPA, but that you tended to be blamed for other players behaviour.  

 

Anyhow, if a rate of fire doesn't allow for not overshooting players, and we are not supposed to overshoot players then fielding the thing is plain silly.  

 

 

 

 

[Rogerborg]

We call them wanker guns for a reason.  Anything over 20rps and you're playing a different game from the rest of us, whether you get there via HPA, DSG or a 40-Mike.

[Nick G]

Anything over say 30 rps could be limited to real cap mags only , that would encourage more use of semi and just short bursts of auto. Mag changes would slow things down if anyone wants to go full wanker mode.

[Adolf Hamster]

14 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

I saw a chap running HPA get a right bollicking for overshooting people.  

 

best days airsoft i ever had there were maybe 1 or 2 pews that didn't have airlines.

 

even though i was on the dark side myself at the time i saw all those air lines and thought "well today is gonna be shit", but boy was i wrong about that. basically every usual gripe about airsoft proceeded to not happen the entire day and the closest thing to dickish behaviour (and i'm really stretching the definition here) was opting to fire one round somewhere it wouldn't hurt over risking a (non-mandatory at that site) bang kill.

 

when the players aren't arseholes the gear they're using becomes irrelevant.

[Nick G]

48 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

 

when the players aren't arseholes the gear they're using becomes irrelevant.

This is the absolute truth, unfortunatly when you get players who are and who are packing guns with insane ROF the day tends to down the toilet pretty rapidly. Not a fan of HPA personally but the high ROF issue doesn't just apply to them , plenty of aegs with stupidly high ROF too and all too often you get a knob using one .

[concretesnail]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

when the players aren't arseholes the gear they're using becomes irrelevant.

 

Bang on. Its the players which make or break the dayon a site and if anyone is acting like a like a prick with an extreme rate of fire it should be the marshals who have a word and make it known that they need to curb it or leave.

 

[Tackle]

20 minutes ago, Nick G said:

This is the absolute truth, unfortunatly when you get players who are and who are packing guns with insane ROF the day tends to down the toilet pretty rapidly. Not a fan of HPA personally but the high ROF issue doesn't just apply to them , plenty of aegs with stupidly high ROF too and all too often you get a TINY knob using one .

 

8 minutes ago, concretesnail said:

 

Bang on. Its the players which make or break the dayon a site and if anyone is acting like a like a TINY prick with an extreme rate of fire it should be the marshals who have a word and make it known that they need to curb it or leave.

 

 

Fixed those for ya ?

[Tactical Pith Helmet]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

best days airsoft i ever had there were maybe 

 

when the players aren't arseholes the gear they're using becomes irrelevant.

Exactly.   Highly unfair to have a pop at someone who would have struggled to overshoot anyone even if they had tried. 

 

Seeing the kit someone uses and making assumptions is daft.  

[Guest DrAlexanderTobacco]

ROF limits unlikely to be workable for a standard skirmish site imo - it'll cause too much friction either during morning chrono (unworkable imo), or "finger in the air" assessments from marshalls during the games.

[PopRocket123]

Basically all my builds are around the 25 RPS mark. The one gun I have that's around 50rps is a stubby M4 pistol that can't hit the broad side of a barn. It's hilarious fun and inaccurate enough that generally don't get overshot. It'd be a shame if I wasn't able to use it as it's hysterical. That said most guns don't need to be that high and those that do it in regular guns either need to get better or stop being dicks. 

[typefish]

My builds are about 22-27rps

 

But that's mostly because I quite like them set up like that for stupidly quick trigger response when I'm playing CQB

 

52 minutes ago, PopRocket123 said:

The one gun I have that's around 50rps is a stubby M4 pistol

 

It's always the M4 pistols, isn't it ?

[Rogerborg]

Decent human being + low ROF gun = ✔️ 

Decent human being + high ROF gun = ✔️

Nobber + low ROF gun = ✔️ 

Nobber + high ROF gun = ❌

 

They shamble among us.  Yesterday was a constant litany of "No full auto into the buildings!", over and over and over.  Some people just can't be told, and sites aren't going to kick them out, no matter how often they threaten to do so.

 

I'd rather that temptation was never put in their paws in the first place.