Acceptable rates of fire

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Emergencychimps said:

My recommendation would be to have more specialist games. Gunman run a skirmish weekend (anything goes within reason) once a month and a filmsim (ammo limits, different medic rules and teams by camo, mid caps encouraged)

 

Agreed, and there does seem to be something like a consensus forming here that ammo limits are a decent way to mitigate ROF issues.

 

I really enjoyed a light-hearted Narcos themed filmsim series run by a local site (camo vs 1980s casual, medic tokens, ammo limits), it worked very well indeed.  However, by the third day of three they'd dropped some of the sim rules because it was just so much work to script, organise and especially marshal compared to a regular "shoot that way" skirmish day.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Carlos at Special Ops told us at the end of the last game that he's looking for a site to use for CQB.  Reading this thread gives me the fear that it'll be in that environment is be bumping into a lot more of the toxic characters with unpleasant rates of fire that you all seem to contend with each time you play. 

 

I was starting this reply with the intention of asking 'what rules would you put in place, would you make it semi auto' etc but it would be bloody presumptuous of me, just back in the sport, to start lobbying the business owner of many years experience to tell him how to run his new venture ??

 

So I guess once it starts up I'll just have to suck it and see, maybe give it a swerve entirely.   And hope that any asshole players drawn in don't decide to play the outdoor stuff too!

 

 

[Rogerborg]

33 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

bumping into a lot more of the toxic characters with unpleasant rates of fire that you all seem to contend with each time you play

 

It's the exception rather than the rule, we just remember both the high- and low-lights more.

 

I've always had better experiences in CQB, for one thing because the marshals are closer to the malefactors and can calm things down more effectively.

[Skara]

Give me ALL THE FUCKING ROF!

 

Actually I've had this very discussion with a couple of teammates (kids mostly) not too long ago.

 

We were chatting about upgrades and they wanted to know what a good RoF was, told them it's around 22 because it still gives plenty of plastic being thrown over there but at the same time you don't empty a magazine in 2 seconds flat.

 

(Unsurprisingly, 22 RPS is what all my guns achieve on 7.4 batteries except for the pdw, which uses a slower motor)

[MAX DICKER]

I'm a big believer in the idea of voting with your feet. If you don't like how a site is run, and the kind of shenanigans the marshals let slide, then don't go. If it's really that bad, then attendance might become low enough that either the site bucks up its ideas or becomes financially non viable. A third outcome is that it will become a site totally frequented by arseholse and every gameday becomes a circle jerk of fuckwittery.

[Han5gruber]

People love to exaggerate HPA rates of fire. I can guarantee you half of the ones you see and hear on the field are doing 25-35 RPS. Maybe 40 on a good day.  

 

Infernos are only rated for 35rps and there's no chance half the people with them are getting that. 

 

Polarstars on the other hand are a different thing entirely.

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Han5gruber said:

Infernos are only rated for 35rps

 

Which is still 3x the ROF of a basic-bitch AEG.

 

I'd suggest that this reveals a significant difference in players' thinking.  Me, I reckon real-steel ROF of about 10rps is sufficient for airsoft use, and that if you can't hit what you're aiming at with a burst of three or four BBs, then putting ten or fifteen into the air with the same trigger pull isn't the best solution.

 

Even if half the HPA users aren't getting a crazy ROF, then half are.  It's the exceptions at the high end that concern me, no matter how few.  It wouldn't, for example, be OK to say "Well, there's a sniper out there shooting 0.5g at 4 Joules, but there's only one of them."

[RostokMcSpoons]

9 hours ago, Han5gruber said:

People love to exaggerate HPA rates of fire. I can guarantee you half of the ones you see and hear on the field are doing 25-35 RPS. Maybe 40 on a good bad day.  

FTFY

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The only thing high ROFers are doing is burning through BBs. If it just turns into a spam fest of a wall of plastic then it's not much fun.

 

I'm lucky if I get 10rps on my basic gnooz. And that's just fine for me.

[Adolf Hamster]

10 hours ago, Han5gruber said:

People love to exaggerate HPA rates of fire. I can guarantee you half of the ones you see and hear on the field are doing 25-35 RPS. Maybe 40 on a good day.  

 

this is kind of the point of the thread, north of 20 generally being considered faster than necessary.

 

3 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

that if you can't hit what you're aiming at with a burst of three or four BBs, then putting ten or fifteen into the air with the same trigger pull isn't the best solution.

 

can confirm, fell for that trap and the simple version is against a sufficiently plot-armour clad target no volume of plastic is sufficient.

[Tackle]

High ROF is essentially the allowed version of this:

 

In both instances the player is hoping to get a kill with the mimimum amount of accuracy or ability 

[Rogerborg]

31 minutes ago, Tackle said:

High ROF is essentially the allowed version of this:

 

Dibs on derailing this thread into a blind / pre-firing handbag spat.  

[Adolf Hamster]

26 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Dibs on derailing this thread into a blind / pre-firing handbag spat.  

 

in fairness, that pic might be creative, but not sure i'd call it blind firing?

 

still has an arm and a face to shoot at....

[Tackle]

26 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

in fairness, that pic might be creative, but not sure i'd call it blind firing?

 

still has an arm and a face to shoot at....

Is this better ya pedantic old git ?

 

 

 

[Druid799]

On 28/12/2021 at 17:09, MAX DICKER said:

I'm a big believer in the idea of voting with your feet. If you don't like how a site is run, and the kind of shenanigans the marshals let slide, then don't go. If it's really that bad, then attendance might become low enough that either the site bucks up its ideas or becomes financially non viable. A third outcome is that it will become a site totally frequented by arseholse and every gameday becomes a circle jerk of fuckwittery.

Very true , UNLESS you’ve got zero choice of game sites unless your willing to travel for hrs and hrs just to get to the next site that you could play at ?

[Adolf Hamster]

17 minutes ago, Tackle said:

Is this better ya pedantic old git ?

 

 

 

 

no, can still see his fingers.....

6 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

Very true , UNLESS you’ve got zero choice of game sites unless your willing to travel for hrs and hrs just to get to the next site that you could play at ?

 

this, voting with your feet works great but only when there's competition to go to.

[Druid799]

11 hours ago, Han5gruber said:

People love to exaggerate HPA rates of fire. I can guarantee you half of the ones you see and hear on the field are doing 25-35 RPS. Maybe 40 on a good day.  

 

Infernos are only rated for 35rps and there's no chance half the people with them are getting that. 

 

Polarstars on the other hand are a different thing entirely.

As others have said this is the problem in a nutshell . Not saying OP is a “insert derogatory phrase or name” but this outlook on rates of fire is the core of the problem . 25RPS and upwards just isn’t acceptable to a lot of players AND is definitely going to piss some other players off big time .

[Skara]

Well to be fair high ROF is simply a side effect of achieving fast trigger response and cycle time.

I'm sure that back when MOSFETs were not a thing (and most importantly we didn't have dickheads posting on YouTube) nobody really complained about being peppered by 30 RPS guns.

[Tommikka]

22 minutes ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

no, can still see his fingers.....

 

this, voting with your feet works great but only when there's competition to go to.

It can work with nowhere else to go - I’ve seen issues highlighted on forums where I’d rather just walk and do nothing 

[Adolf Hamster]

2 minutes ago, Tommikka said:

It can work with nowhere else to go - I’ve seen issues highlighted on forums where I’d rather just walk and do nothing 

 

oh indeed, but that's the option we'd all rather we weren't forced to take.

[Han5gruber]

Personally I've been playing 4 years and never seen any problems at sites with rate of fire (auto). 

 

I have seen issues with rate of fire when it's semi only (binary/hair triggers etc) but not that frequently. 

 

I do see daily issues on a game day with people not taking hits and rifs been over site limits etc. 

 

I really don't think this is the issue most of you are making it out to be. I'd much rather address the inconsistencies with site chrono's and people joule creeping along with not taking hits than 3-4 people with a high rate of fire being potential dick heads. 

[John_W]

2 hours ago, Skara said:

Well to be fair high ROF is simply a side effect of achieving fast trigger response and cycle time.

I'm sure that back when MOSFETs were not a thing (and most importantly we didn't have dickheads posting on YouTube) nobody really complained about being peppered by 30 RPS guns.

I remember someone running a FAMAS on a 10.6 NiCad. Used to rebuild it every couple of games when it shat the gears.

[Groot]

2 hours ago, Skara said:

Well to be fair high ROF is simply a side effect of achieving fast trigger response and cycle time.

I'm sure that back when MOSFETs were not a thing (and most importantly we didn't have dickheads posting on YouTube) nobody really complained about being peppered by 30 RPS guns.

I agree it is a sickening result, due to the sites being all pussy now and demanding more and more single fire

Back when we ran AEGs, carrying 6-9 Hicaps, 9.6v 3300a batteries and 20k of spare bbs in your backpack.. (Just incase.) 

It was never an issue 

 

 

Make full auto great again!

 

[Cannonfodder]

1 hour ago, John_W said:

I remember someone running a FAMAS on a 10.6 NiCad. Used to rebuild it every couple of games when it shat the gears.

Would that be a certain Thompson owner? ?

 

1 hour ago, Groot said:

I agree it is a sickening result, due to the sites being all pussy now and demanding more and more single fire

Back when we ran AEGs, carrying 6-9 Hicaps, 9.6v 3300a batteries and 20k of spare bbs in your backpack.. (Just incase.) 

It was never an issue 

 

 

Make full auto great again!

 

This. Anyone who played at Electowerkz would understand 

[Druid799]

2 hours ago, Han5gruber said:

Personally I've been playing 4 years and never seen any problems at sites with rate of fire (auto). 

 

I have seen issues with rate of fire when it's semi only (binary/hair triggers etc) but not that frequently. 

 

I do see daily issues on a game day with people not taking hits and rifs been over site limits etc. 

 

I really don't think this is the issue most of you are making it out to be. I'd much rather address the inconsistencies with site chrono's and people joule creeping along with not taking hits than 3-4 people with a high rate of fire being potential dick heads. 

Have to sort of agree and disagree on this , do agree the stupid ‘flappy’ hair triggers can be a pain in the butt at semi only games but I equally find that you have a similar problem when you have sites saying “short bursts” only . Example few yrs ago went to strike force CQB in Gloucester , first visit the rule was semi only and I thoroughly enjoyed it , yes you did have a few of the hair trigger brigade sticking 3,4 or even 5 shots in to you in the time you got 1 or possibly 2 shots off , but not a problem , BUT next time I went a couple of mths later rules had changed , apparently some of the players with bog standard AEG’s where complaining the HPA and high cycle boys had an unfair advantage(Don’t see this but who am I to say ?) SO they then allowing ‘short’ bursts to ‘even’ the gameplay ??????

which ment yes if you had a ‘normal’ AEG you’d get 3,4,5 shots off but the others where now getting 10,11,12 shots off in the same space of time ! now I don’t care how big and ‘ard’ you think you are or how much you crow on about “if you can’t take getting hit don’t play !” a 10+rd burst in CQB F…ing hurts and will piss you off if it happens continuously through out the day .