Height Over Bore

[Davegolf]

Sorry i couldnt help myself... only a couple years back all the AR fappers were bitching about the likes of many other firearms with a high height over bore optic line, you know because people actually have necks, and now without any apology they are all over it like they invented it - i mean thats never heappened either ? Discuss

 

 

[Guest]

I’m not bothered either way, I want something that works as well as it can possibly work.

 

High HoB I’m guessing is more useful if your standing, less so if you’re laying.

 

The best bit for me is having the drop down instead of flip to the side magnifier, much more satisfying to use.

[Adolf Hamster]

5 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Sorry i couldnt help myself... only a couple years back all the AR fappers were bitching about the likes of many other firearms with a high height over bore optic line, you know because people actually have necks, and now without any apology they are all over it like they invented it - i mean thats never heappened either ? Discuss

 

[Skara]

I guess people realized a more natural stance means less strain on your neck.

 

The best solution was the old carryhandle optic, when prone you could still use irons comfortably, and guess what? The new fancy unity mounts have integrated irons at the same height of carryhandles (that don't really work btw because they're literally one inch apart and focusing them correctly is fucking impossible).

[Davegolf]

The best solution but completely impossible 'cos AR' would be to have the stock dropped, that way you keep low HOB for less disparity / hold over variations, an upright aware stance for active shooting, but the best bit - you could just lift up a cheek riser for prone shooting no?

 

Or the other solution that already exists that they seem to have forgotten about is;

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

10 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

The best solution but completely impossible 'cos AR' would be to have the stock dropped, that way you keep low HOB for less disparity / hold over variations, an upright aware stance for active shooting, but the best bit - you could just lift up a cheek riser for prone shooting no?

 

but then you'd lose the straight-line recoil impulse which is why the stock is mounted that high in the first place?

 

that's why the og ar had to have the carry handle- you needed to rise the sights that far above the bore to get your head onto them. wasn't an issue on previous rifles because straight line stocks was a new idea.

 

funny enough, the em2 which was specifically designed for optics from the get go (unlike the ar/fal/g3/ak where optics were kinda afterthoughts) also had a carry handle to rise the optic above the receiver.

 

you don't see it as much in other designs because the barrels are mounted lower, you look at the ak/fal/g3 they all have stuff mounted above the barrel which fills in the space where the ar carry handle would otherwise be.

 

13 minutes ago, Davegolf said:

Or the other solution that already exists that they seem to have forgotten about is

 

which is a great combo imo, you've got your risen optic but you've also got a magnified optic, and no faffing around with levers/magnifiers to switch between the 2 you just shift your face.

 

 

[Lozart]

Average AR user: "Waaahhh height over bore"

 

Me: *laughs in M14

[Speedbird_666]

1 hour ago, Skara said:

(that don't really work btw because they're literally one inch apart and focusing them correctly is fucking impossible).

 

A lot of police departments in the US stipulate that backup iron sights must be fitted even when using tall risers for passive NV (thus rendering the irons unusable). The integrated Iron sights are only there to tick a box on the admin paperwork keeping the bean counters happy and are not really intended for backup use. Chris Costa covered it in a recent video.

 

Unity mounts are old hat anyway -  the cool kids roll with GBRS Hydras.

 

 

[Floperator]

Tall mounts are all very well for close range and room clearance stuff, but you're going to run into problems attempting precision shooting at longer range, especially if you're using a dot sight with only one aim point.

That said, close range covers most use cases outside of the military; certainly in airsoft, but also most law enforcement and civilian 'applications' (hard to claim it was self defense if you're shooting at someone 300 metres away).

 

I do like the ACOG and dot sight stacked optic setup, which is why I chose it for myself.

[Lozart]

You need to look at the latest crop of high mounts in the arena of why they were produced in the first place. The whole point is to make it easier to use your optics (primarily) on an AR platform while you have NVGs on. The fact that they make it easier to get a decent head position in airsoft/wearing a mask etc is utterly coincidental.

[ak2m4]

 

[Rogerborg]

6 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

 

 

[Adolf Hamster]

47 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

the future

 

i did see versions mentioning that when digging up that meme, remarkably accurate too given low bore offset wasn't invented by the ar crew either

[Davegolf]

1 hour ago, ak2m4 said:

 

 

Guy on the left looks a lot like Paul from Prison Break

 

I mean its not cos he was born in '69 but v similar

[Tommikka]

7 hours ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

The art of marketing and building your customer base

[Druid799]

My take on the whole “high rise/low rise” argument is as airsofters why are we arguing about which optic setup is best when we are working at ranges where you don’t actually NEED optics to hit a man sized target ! ???

[Skara]

28 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

My take on the whole “high rise/low rise” argument is as airsofters why are we arguing about which optic setup is best when we are working at ranges where you don’t actually NEED optics to hit a man sized target ! ???

We don't even need to aim, for that matter

[Tackle]

28 minutes ago, Druid799 said:

My take on the whole “high rise/low rise” argument is as airsofters why are we arguing about which optic setup is best when we are working at ranges where you don’t actually NEED optics to hit a man sized target ! ???

Spot on, quite literally for the average Airsoft engagement, the ability to be able to point at your target, should be enough for a reasonable level of accuracy, it's literally "shooting 101".

Obviously there are some cack handed cross eyed exceptions to this, but thankfully they're in the minority ?. 

But I get it if a dedicated sniper wants to zero a sight perfectly, hitting first time is advantageous if you don't want to give away your position trying to cock for a second shot. 

For the rest of you it's essentially "dressing up your dollies" ?

[Adolf Hamster]

9 hours ago, Druid799 said:

My take on the whole “high rise/low rise” argument is as airsofters why are we arguing about which optic setup is best when we are working at ranges where you don’t actually NEED optics to hit a man sized target ! ???

 

 

simple, the majority of the time we're not being given the luxury of a man sized target.

 

we get a hand, or a leg, of half a face poking out from behind cover, a much smaller target. having the precision of both the pew and the optical setup to take advantage of those opportunities is useful.

[Davegolf]

Definitely, being sighted up ready to exploit any opportunity, in urban or woodland setting with a single snap shot .

[Floperator]

1 hour ago, Adolf Hamster said:

 

 

simple, the majority of the time we're not being given the luxury of a man sized target.

 

we get a hand, or a leg, of half a face poking out from behind cover, a much smaller target. having the precision of both the pew and the optical setup to take advantage of those opportunities is useful.

The gameday before last I got a lovely little shot in when I saw the top half of a baseball cap poking above a hedgeline...it made a very satisfying sound ?

Yeah you can just walk the shots in shooting off the hip at 25 yards, but if you want to see and shoot people before they can see and shoot you, then an optic comes in damn useful.

[Rogerborg]

4 minutes ago, Floperator said:

The gameday before last I got a lovely little shot in when I saw the top half of a baseball cap poking above a hedgeline

 

Whenever I do that, it's usually followed by a demented howl of "Marshal! Check your fire! Are you blind?"  Hi-vis vest + camo cap = <eye-roll.gif>

 

Wandering vaguely back on topic, I like high-rise optics in principle.  In practice, especially in CQB sites, I find it tends to result in sticking the barrel into a barricade.  I'm rather on the fence about them (and I keep shooting fences too).

 

And aesthetically... ?

 

[Adolf Hamster]

19 minutes ago, Rogerborg said:

Wandering vaguely back on topic, I like high-rise optics in principle.  In practice, especially in CQB sites, I find it tends to result in sticking the barrel into a barricade.  I'm rather on the fence about them (and I keep shooting fences too).

 

the worst one is when trying to fire through a narrow window or the like when in order to have the barrel clear of the bottom the optic is obscured at the top.

 

in RS you'd just tilt the gun sideways and it'd be close enough for government work but ofc that's not gonna work so well in airsoft....

[Davegolf]

Yeh barricade / barrel is a PITA with high HOB if your actually wanting to aim and no present a huge pop-up-pirate

[Rogerborg]

All the sites I play at have "no firing through a gap you can't get your head through" rules, so it should always be possible to get barrel and optic through the same hole.  In practice though, I do keep popping up just enough to just get the optic or sights on target, then shred wood.