US - Airsoft under threat?

[Colin Allen]

6 hours ago, Tactical Pith Helmet said:

Not sure to be honest,  although I imagine that the petro industry qualifies it.  

 

I know that South Africa is the only 'first world ' nation in Africa.  In 2019 I think that I remember that about 10% more people died from criminality in SA  than died from the Syrian civil war.  22k v 20k.  Worth checking anyhow. 

 

It's a very open question. 

 

I did some quite extensive data analysis on South African crime rates a few years ago as part of a wider research project into violent crime in South Africa

Generally accepted reasons for the high violent crime rates include:
A failed policing criminal justice system that is under equipped, ineffective, inefficient, highly politicised and corrupt.
Massively unequal wealth distribution.
Zero prospects for advancement for a large percentage of the population.
Disadvantaged young people being drawn into violent crime through a normalisation of violence, the growth of violent subcultures, poor parenting, poverty etc.
Brutalisation of young people growing up in poverty, resulting in the above mentioned normalisation of violence.
Large numbers of guns being readily available, often having been sold to gangs by police officers on an almost industrial scale; for example, Colonel Christiaan Prinsloo was convicted in 2016 of selling more than 2000 guns to criminal gangs.

As well educated and skilled South Africans, predominantly white, leave the country in ever increasing numbers, with most giving the level of violent crime as their main motivation for doing so, it is unlikely that the situation is going to improve as their departure is negatively impacting business and the economy, leading to further reductions in opportunities for the underprivileged.

As with the USA, it does look like South Africa may be well and truly fucked when it comes to violent crime and, in particular, murder.
 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

<Steering well away from the politics and arguments>..........

 

The fact remains many folk don't like guns, whether real or not. That gives ammunition - pun intended - who seek to further regulate or completely cancel our hobby. Fear and ignorance are a dangerous mix.

 

It's a wonder the way things are going in this country that they haven't come for us yet.

 

Eezer G

[Rogerborg]

22 minutes ago, Ebeneezer Goode said:

It's a wonder the way things are going in this country that they haven't come for us yet.

 

Agreed, I'm enjoying the fun while it lasts.  I've also put a lid on buying more toys because I suspect that at some point they'll become a liability rather than an asset.

 

One thing that we don't seem to do in the UK is buy-back schemes.  When yet more things are criminalised, you're expected to destroy them, or hand them in to the police.

 

So at that point, if you want to recoup some of what you've spent, the only way left to do that is to flog them to Bad Barry behind the Dog and Duck.  Not, I think, the desired outcome.

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Sign of the times Mr. Borg. I'm also having having my fun whilst I can before Fishi Nutsak or whatever other  dripping wet Fun Police Socialist stooge/UnHolyrood prat is in power next decides to come for us.

 

Worrying as there's been a few "incidents" involving teenagers and airsoft guns up our way of recent, only a matter of time before it starts getting Meedja coverage and the inevitable hysterical clamour to "Dae Sumhin" starts.

[Enid_Puceflange]

Yup, sadly I’m in agreement

Im enjoying it while it lasts, before the spotlight is shone upon our hobby

But would I surrender my toys for disposal?

probably not 

but that’s another discussion ?

Edited June 10, 2023 by Enid_Puceflange

[Rogerborg]

2 hours ago, Ebeneezer Goode said:

Worrying as there's been a few "incidents" involving teenagers and airsoft guns up our way of recent, only a matter of time before it starts getting Meedja coverage and the inevitable hysterical clamour to "Dae Sumhin" starts.

 

Agreed, it's astonishing that the professional fun-sponges in Holyrood haven't noticed us enjoying ourselves and put a stop to our nonsense. 

[novioman]

6 hours ago, Rogerborg said:

 

Agreed, I'm enjoying the fun while it lasts.  I've also put a lid on buying more toys because I suspect that at some point they'll become a liability rather than an asset.

 

One thing that we don't seem to do in the UK is buy-back schemes.  When yet more things are criminalised, you're expected to destroy them, or hand them in to the police.

 

So at that point, if you want to recoup some of what you've spent, the only way left to do that is to flog them to Bad Barry behind the Dog and Duck.  Not, I think, the desired outcome.

As I said a few posts back they tried that with air cartridge guns and most went underground. How many airsoft guns are owned in the U.K. I wonder, many millions I guess, and how many would be handed in for no compensation.  
When the VCRA bill first came in those people who already owned RIF’s kept them. They might stop people buying more guns, but trying to force people to give up legally purchased property ? Good luck with that. 

[Dan Robinson]

I feel a Charlton Heston quote coming on LOL 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

2 hours ago, novioman said:

As I said a few posts back they tried that with air cartridge guns and most went underground. How many airsoft guns are owned in the U.K. I wonder, many millions I guess, and how many would be handed in for no compensation.  
When the VCRA bill first came in those people who already owned RIF’s kept them. They might stop people buying more guns, but trying to force people to give up legally purchased property ? Good luck with that. 

I'm not sure our esteemed politicians give a flying fornication regarding that. Politics is politics, and faced with hysterical mania its a bandwagon our Internationalist, Interventionist, spend-thrift tax thieves will be all too willing to jump on to virtue-signal and show their peers how they "faced up to" "danger" and "took action". Meanwhile large numbers of perfectly innocent citizens minding their own business have yet another thing taken away from them, and the descent from liberty to totalitarianism quickens.

 

Oops sorry for the rant. Forgot this was AFUK not Guido Fawkes.

[Shamal]

10 minutes ago, Ebeneezer Goode said:

I'm not sure our esteemed politicians give a flying fornication regarding that. Politics is politics, and faced with hysterical mania its a bandwagon our Internationalist, Interventionist, spend-thrift tax thieves will be all too willing to jump on to virtue-signal and show their peers how they "faced up to" "danger" and "took action". Meanwhile large numbers of perfectly innocent citizens minding their own business have yet another thing taken away from them, and the descent from liberty to totalitarianism quickens.

 

Oops sorry for the rant. Forgot this was AFUK not Guido Fawkes.

Exactly what I've been saying for years. 

When the alert sounds you will comply.?

[Ebeneezer Goode]

1 minute ago, Shamal said:

Exactly what I've been saying for years. 

When the alert sounds you will comply.?

Aye, same shite, different name. Covid, Climate Change, you name it, bandwagon jumped on, hysteria abounds and we all get shafted.

 

Oops sorry went off on one again. I'll stop now. I promise. *twitch twitch*

[Leo Greer]

21 hours ago, Dan Robinson said:

 

 

I'd be interested to see a non developing country with a higher violent crime death rate per capita with stricter gun control laws.

 

Your participation in a UK forum is admirable in that you are apparently interested in the happenings outside your nation's borders.  Next you'll be telling us you own a passport ?

 

The conversation becomes even more interesting when we start counting crimes like rape. Australia is No. 2 in the world! Sweden is on the top ten!

 

I was in Italy recently, and the rate of robbery, (not counting burglary or thievery) is absolutely massive, especially in certain cities. Naples has an unemployment rate of over 30% right now.

 

You could call me a culture tourist—I genuinely enjoy seeing other people’s ways of life and perspectives on things. ? I actually do have a passport—I’m almost to a dozen countries—so I spend quite a bit of time immersed in other cultures.

Nah, not strange that you don’t enjoy real guns. I’m way more of an airsoft nut than I am a real-steel nut.

 

19 hours ago, Cannonfodder said:

The cold war is a very bad example of the point you're trying (and failing) to make. Both sides were in an arms race as they both considered the other side to be wanting to wipe them out.

 

As for your question about why wouldn't they use it, why would they go through the extra hassle of getting a gun when a knife can be bought for a fraction of the price and will have the same effect on the victim, whether that's making them comply or putting a hole in them

Fair enough—Cold War is a bad example. The point I was trying to make is that us and our police shouldn’t be using knives in hopes that the criminals will use knives as well. Putting yourself at the mercy of a bad guy in hopes he backs up and does the same for you is just stupid.

 

Knives are cheaper, yes, but at least in the USA, a basic rifle or handgun is so cheap pretty much anyone can afford one. A basic rifle can be purchased for less than $100 new, and a basic handgun can be around $100 as well. Private sales can be any price, of course.

 

Two words: threat bubble. Knives have an extremely small threat bubble. It’s also much harder to kill or even hurt someone with a knife than a gun, assuming that is the intent.

 

Imagine any robber trying a bank without a gun… (most are caught, but that doesn’t mean they don’t try)

 

In recent times, there was a knifing at a local school. The perpetrator only injured one victim, despite intent to hurt more. Why? Because a knife is a thousand times less effective of a weapon than a gun.

 

I repeat; firearms are an equalizer. My 80 year old grandmother can shoot someone dead just as well as a highly trained cop, or a a gang boss. Who’s going to win in the knife fight? (Hmm, maybe not quite as well, but you get the picture ?)

 

My grandfather was a cop for 25 years. He was in gunfights, shot multiple times, was called in for mass shootings, shot criminals, crashed his motorcycle in the middle of a car chase, and was known to the end of his life as “that old guy who always carries three pistols”.

 

Most people are not, and will never have to be my grandfather, encountering threats to his life and the lives of others on a common basis.

 

But as the saying goes: “He who packeth heat be a fool all the days but one.”

 

I found an interesting report from the American FBI that states that in 2019 armed American citizens killed 386 felons during the perpetration of their crimes vs. 340 from the police. This does not include any self-defense shootings, or shootings that weren’t fatal.

 

 

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/expanded-homicide

I first found this page from various media outlets, but I dug up the original report for sale of veracity—if anyone sees anything misleading about the way these numbers are presented, you should let everyone know!

 

In short, it’s not “an exception” for citizens to make use of their firearms in lawful manners. Heck, this report didn’t include anything that was for self-defense, only the stopping of felons (murder, rape, arson, etc).

 

I don’t know the faces behind the avatars, but I’m assuming it’s mostly men on here. In almost all cases, women aren’t capable of overpowering men by physical strength. If you take away weapons, you reduce the fight down to pure physical strength and skill. Who wins in those cases? Note the extremely high rape numbers for Australia…

 

Better yet, ask yourself what you’d like your mother, wife, sister, or daughter to carry in potentially dangerous situations. 

[Colin Allen]

2 hours ago, Ebeneezer Goode said:

and the descent from liberty to totalitarianism quickens.

Very unlikely in the UK; totalitarianism does not tend to happen in countries that do not take their politicians seriously and which recognise them for the incompetent, greedy, egomaniacal bastards that most of them are.

We take the piss out of our politicians far too much for anyone to get into a position where they can create a totalitarian regime; Mosley was probably the biggest internal threat to our democracy in modern times and he failed in part because he was widely lampooned and derided, but mainly because we do not really 'do' totalitarianism.

As for Covid, the response to that was probably basically correct, albeit with several mistakes, acts of stupidity (eat out to help out) and utter corruption and cronyism from the ruling party.

Unfortunately, climate change is a real thing, regardless of whether individuals "believe" in it; we really do have to change the way we behave if we want to leave the planet in a reasonable state for future generations.

As to whether they are going to "come for our guns" at some point, I suspect that they probably will eventually.  I have always been somewhat surprised that owning RIFs is so easily tolerated in the UK and will be somewhat disappointed but not particularly surprised when they do.

Edited June 10, 2023 by Colin Allen

[novioman]

If we get a Labour government next then I do fear all shooting disciplines will have more trouble, I would think that what are toys legally will be far down the list. 
Most of the RIF’s we use in airsoft or also available as .177 airguns don’t forget, so you couldn’t ban one without the other being affected. 
Shotguns after Plymouth will face more restrictions I am sure, after all it can’t be the police’s fault that they gave back a seized shotgun to a very sick individual to go out and murder with. 
At the moment it’s proving very difficult to obtain primers, powders for home -loading ammunition and buying factory ammo even .22 is difficult around my area. 
Even the NSRA shop at Bisley had little in the way of lead pellets or .22 ammo last weekend. No shops can seem to offer an explanation as to why things are in such short supply, and when you can find them they are often 30% to 40% more expensive. 
A ban by the back door perhaps.  Maybe we will find that shops can’t get hold of gas or bb’s sometime in the future. 
 

Edited June 10, 2023 by novioman

[Cannonfodder]

12 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

was in Italy recently, and the rate of robbery, (not counting burglary or thievery) is absolutely massive, especially in certain cities. Naples has an unemployment rate of over 30% right now

How many of those robberies involved a threat of violence compared to bag snatches or pick pockets? Every time I've traveled to continental Europe they were the biggest risk. What was it which made you feel unsafe in these cities?

 

12 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

Imagine any robber trying a bank without a gun

That's a straw man argument 

12 hours ago, Leo Greer said:

In recent times, there was a knifing at a local school. The perpetrator only injured one victim, despite intent to hurt more. Why? Because a knife is a thousand times less effective of a weapon than a gun.

I think staff and students of Osaka Kyoiku University would disagree (8 dead, 20 wounded in a knife attack)

 

What do you think should be done to reduce the number of mass shootings in the US?

 

11 hours ago, Colin Allen said:

Unfortunately, climate change is a real thing, regardless of whether individuals "believe" in

This. Anyone trying to convince you otherwise is either deliberately trying to deceive you, don't understand the science or both

[Pupa2794]

@Cannonfodderit's just an anecdote but last week me and the Mrs took a motorbike through Europe.

We had an attempted bike jacking/robbery in Brussels outside our hotel by a gang of morrocans (the police chatted with us afterwords) with a machete very much involved.

 

We were exceptionally lucky that Belgian plain clothes police were there, and were armed, and don't fuck around. 

[Tackle]

10 minutes ago, Pupa2794 said:

@Cannonfodderit's just an anecdote but last week me and the Mrs took a motorbike through Europe.

We had an attempted bike jacking/robbery in Brussels outside our hotel by a gang of morrocans (the police chatted with us afterwords) with a machete very much involved.

 

We were exceptionally lucky that Belgian plain clothes police were there, and were armed, and don't fuck around. 

Glad you guys were OK, wasn't sure what emoji was suitable. Watchya riding that there were ready to chop you up for ? 

(to be fair, half the "third world" emigrees would chop bits off for the price of a mid range mobile phone?) 

[Pupa2794]

A 25 year old suzuki TL1000S. 

Not the ideal machine to be riding a couple of thousand miles 2 up. Worth 2 grand. 

 

Tbf the policeman that I spoke to the most said this particular lot will stab first and ask questions later. 

 

Gemma was upset but we went to Ghent and had 2 nights there instead of 1 in a cabin in some woods and it was a blessing in disguise. Ghent is a beautiful, lovely friendly place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shamal]

11 minutes ago, Pupa2794 said:

A 25 year old suzuki TL1000S. 

Not the ideal machine to be riding a couple of thousand miles 2 up. Worth 2 grand. 

 

Tbf the policeman that I spoke to the most said this particular lot will stab first and ask questions later. 

 

Gemma was upset but we went to Ghent and had 2 nights there instead of 1 in a cabin in some woods and it was a blessing in disguise. Ghent is a beautiful, lovely friendly place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crikey! 

Glad you got out in one piece.?

 

Regards 

[Tackle]

12 minutes ago, Pupa2794 said:

A 25 year old suzuki TL1000S. 

Not the ideal machine to be riding a couple of thousand miles 2 up. Worth 2 grand. 

 

Tbf the policeman that I spoke to the most said this particular lot will stab first and ask questions later. 

 

Gemma was upset but we went to Ghent and had 2 nights there instead of 1 in a cabin in some woods and it was a blessing in disguise. Ghent is a beautiful, lovely friendly place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe things happen for a reason, things worked out OK in the end thankfully. 

Although if they had got it away, they wouldn't have got far on it, the didn't used to call the TL the widow maker for nothing lol, I'm guessing yours has the steering damper on it. 

What colour is it, yellow, red or black.......? 

[Colin Allen]

6 hours ago, Pupa2794 said:

@Cannonfodderit's just an anecdote but last week me and the Mrs took a motorbike through Europe.

We had an attempted bike jacking/robbery in Brussels outside our hotel by a gang of morrocans (the police chatted with us afterwords) with a machete very much involved.

 

We were exceptionally lucky that Belgian plain clothes police were there, and were armed, and don't fuck around. 

Bloody hell!  The wonders of enrichment.  Thankfully, you were both ok.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Colin Allen

[Pupa2794]

@TackleI removed the steering damper.

It had got 1000 quids worth of bitubo rear shock which solves the issue. Really don't need a steering damper with a proper shock. 

Naff bike to ride slowly or round town, loads of fun, and far too easy, to do silly speeds. 

 

I got rid on my return and bought something a bit more me. 

 

Anyway, I won't hijack this further, to summarise in the game of morrocan crime gang glock paper scissors, glock won. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Pupa2794

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Nice ride, and thank the Lord you are OK.

[Cannonfodder]

Glad to hear you're both ok

[Dan Robinson]

Glad you're both safe!!!

 

Shall we start a motorbike appreciation thread to go alongside the Family History one? LOL

 

Brother inherited this and doesn't ride bike's - said I could have it but SWMBO put the kibosh on it...

 

 

He also had these:

 

 

 

Had a very happy summer getting them "ready" for selling.

 

 

Honda hadn't been run for nearly 15 years - started on the third try - once I remembered to turn the fecking fuel on.

 

I stand to inherit an AJS 550 - as long as the old man rebuilds it before he goes.