First Aid Kits

[The_Lord_Poncho]

In my view, on game days no need for anything more than a couple of plasters and a wide roll of zinc oxide/fabric tape in the safezone for those annoying cuts and grazes; anything more major (field dressings/eye washes etc) should be able to be supplied by the first aid kits legally required to be held by the site.

 

Kits for cars, walking, life etc are another thing - i personally have medical scissors, a large field dressing + tourniquet in each car;  and a personal first aid kit for weekends in the woods, walking etc with the above+ more dressings (tip - eye pads are great for cut fingers), fabric tape, saline for eyes, quick clot packing tape, and a resuscitation mouth seal thingy to make vom covered mouths more palatable....

2 hours ago, pedro said:

 

never been a medical professional but had a few in the family and close mates etc and they would remind me of an unfortunate saying in hospital emergency departments

 

"first aiders kill people"

 

so whenever i have been required to offer aid to someone i always kept that in mind 

 

 

 

I'm afraid In my view this is nonsense. You should always always have a go, and do what you think will help, unless there is someone better experienced/qualified available immediately to take over. The law will protect you (in this country) if you have done your best and what a reasonable person would have done. We aren't in America, where things might, sadly, turn out rather differently.

 

I for one would find it a struggle to maintain any degree of self respect if i passed someone by that needed help just because i was afraid of a theoretical legal action from aggrieved relatives. I'm sure the (UK) statistics of success of such actions of that nature will back the point up.

[pedro]

situation 1, im the patient.  whilst working on a building site ive been struck on the head by a 21 foot scaffold pole and i am walking, talking and holding a small bandage to the 2 inch gash in my forehead to stem the blood.

 

site manager comes running across with the first aid kit and proceeds to take out a very long bandage, i ask him what he intends to do with that and he says "im going to bind your head to stop the blood" 

 

i stopped him because i was concerned if he continued and i had a fractured skull he might make things worse, ambulance crew concurred.

 

situation 2. its about 3 am on the m6 southbound and a motorcyclist has collided with a bridge support at high speed. he is an absolute mess and parts of his bike are strewn over a wide area. its me and one other driver that have stopped to help and when the patient is slipping in and out of consciousness and mumbling stuff the other driver says we should take his helmet off so we can hear him more clearly. i made sure that didnt happen.

 

i will always stop and give first aid/assistance. 1 because its morally the right thing to do and 2 because often there isnt anyone else present who can manage the situation safely and efficiantly. once the pros turn up i do my handover and go on my way. still never knew what happend to the motorcyclist on the m6, i hope he made it. 

 

 

[hunter511]

1 good thing for this post. Pushing to get my level 3 first aid quals renewed at work

Edited August 30, 2023 by hunter511

[MrTea]

5 hours ago, pedro said:

situation 2. its about 3 am on the m6 southbound and a motorcyclist has collided with a bridge support at high speed. he is an absolute mess and parts of his bike are strewn over a wide area. its me and one other driver that have stopped to help and when the patient is slipping in and out of consciousness and mumbling stuff the other driver says we should take his helmet off so we can hear him more clearly. i made sure that didnt happen.

Was I one of the only people told to minimise neck/head movement when assisting any kind of vehicle incident and to not remove helmets? What the fucky wucky? I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not.

[THE CHIEF]

5 hours ago, MrTea said:

Was I one of the only people told to minimise neck/head movement when assisting any kind of vehicle incident and to not remove helmets? What the fucky wucky? I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not.

Ha! I would assume the training is still the same with people practicing a log roll if absolutely necessary. 

 

Basic first aid kit for game days with a couple of personal augmentations. Like some Mr Bump plasters for people particularly being a pussy.

 

 

[Cannonfodder]

7 hours ago, MrTea said:

Was I one of the only people told to minimise neck/head movement when assisting any kind of vehicle incident and to not remove helmets? What the fucky wucky? I thought this was common knowledge but I guess not.

I was taught that the only reason remove a lid is if it's 100% necessary and the patent will die if you don't. Eg they're choking on their tongue 

[Jacob Wright]

So once again I guess the take away point here is - don't do something you're not trained and competent in, otherwise try and do the basics to the best of your ability (plasters, reassurance, get help, get out of the way).

[The_Lord_Poncho]

3 hours ago, Jacob Wright said:

So once again I guess the take away point here is - don't do something you're not trained and competent in, otherwise try and do the basics to the best of your ability (plasters, reassurance, get help, get out of the way).

People should absolutely have the confidence to crack on with chest compressions without formal training, similarly, maintaining an airway. With an unresponsive casualty, to stand by due to a lack of confidence may hasten their death/increase the likelihood that they end up with severe brain injury through oxygen starvation. To have a go and do you best may just mean that they are in a state that when professional/qualified/equipped care turns up, they can do something useful.

 

Of course the gold standard is to get some training, and frankly i find it astonishing how few people do  - especially when the overwhelming likelihood is that it is a family member or a good mate that is the person in desperate need for first aid from you.

 

Re. one the the above points - agree that motorcycle helmets should be removed - but only if essential to perform immediately necessary first aid - e.g. to maintain an airway and/or to perform CPR. In the example above, if the person is still talking then it wouldn't be necessary to remove the helmet. There is a correct way to do so in order to minimise neck/spinal movement.

 

The trick is to work down the priorities of first aid - Airway, Breathing, Circulation (yes i know its more nuanced than that, but for the purpose of this thread...!) i.e. - if the airway is blocked  - you MUST do something about it (i.e. clear it, get the casualty into a position where it is cleared and unobstructed). If they are not breathing/oxygenated blood getting to the brain you MUST do something about it (i.e. chest compressions + mouth to mouth if you are comfortable/able). If there is a catastrophic (i.e. arterial) bleed, you MUST do something about it (i.e. direct or indirect compression). There are right and wrong ways of going about these actions, as well as ways which would minimise the likelihood for causing secondary long term complications/injuries, but everyone must still have a go after first calling for help -  unless there is someone better able with you that can perform those immediate actions more effectively. 

 

Example, a motorcyclist is unconscious and unresponsive. After ascertaining this, you remove his helmet in order to open up his airway and perform CPR. In the process, it later turns out that you have exacerbated a spinal injury and the person is paralysed. He is, however, alive and with a functioning mental state - you having maintained a supply of oxygenated blood to his brain until the ambulance arrived equipped with a defib etc. The alternative scenario, you look on, paralysed into inaction as you are concerned about something you read on the internet about never removing a motorcyclists helmet/a nonsense sticker on the helmet itself stating the same thing; the person is pronounced dead at the scene when medical care does turn up, and you spend the rest of your life wondering whether you could have made a difference for that bloke and his family!

 

Appreciate that this is all a little emotive and heavy a subject, but i do think it is rather important. Perfect excuse for people to book themselves onto a first aid course/get your workplace to do so at their expense!

[Gryph]

Policy where I work is that motorcycle helmets need to be removed in every collision so that you can open airways etc... There is a method to this that I won't get in to for berevity. 
The summary of the reasoning is that if you somehow kill them by removing the helmet, then chances are they'll have been dead regardless and it's better to do something to help, than stand and let someone die. Primary function of a bobby is preservation of life which is pretty hard to do if you can't clear someone's airways.

 

I'm sort of reiterating what Poncho's said above there though.

 

On 29/08/2023 at 23:17, SheriffHD said:

Oddly enough - our resus team state not to bother with the breaths being that there's enough residual o2 in the blood stream to sustain and ultimately keeping blood flow is the main priority, but then again our training is based on the fact we have a crash bag with air delivery options available and we have to wear ffp3 masks which prevents us being able to mouth to mouth anyway.

That's totally fair, I suppose it's horses for courses at the end of the day, our first aid training isn't as good as yours because it's not our primary function (I do think that there should be a bigger focus on it though, personally) and you guys have much better kit for saving lives.

Our first aid kits are pretty shocking to be honest with you, we've only recently had our cars issued with AEDs and CATs!

Edited August 31, 2023 by Gryph