Adolf Hamster

i was about to comment about why use one of these in an auto only gun, then i remembered how much gunk accumulates from the brushes after heavy use.....

surprised an airsoft company isn't simply branding it as a feature "reduces reload-shot time by 0.4s"

What do you mean? From my perspective it just got interesting?

yeah, can be fun to delve into this sort of thing, tbh i'm surprised it's that small myself figured it'd be a more major component.

yes the angular velocity is a bit of an unknown. in the spreadsheet i made a while back i ended up having to go with a macro and goal seek to just brute force it, hence the whole "20cm of rise" caveat as there needed to be a fixed goal to look for. although tbh a few corners were cut, eg the magnus force was simplified to the force for a cylinder of equivalent cross section rather than doing it properly and splitting it up into increments, or the very oversimplified drag model that treated air as an incompressible fluid. but then i was doing it because i was bored/curious so an approximation was good enough for the aforementioned 1j of muzzle energy and 20cm of rise criteria it would come out as: 63.67 rad/s for 0.2g 79.54 rad/s for 0.25g 97.03 rad/s for 0.3g 133.46 rad/s for 0.4g 173.293 rad/s for 0.5g it's part of the reason why as mentioned, heavier=better doesn't always hold true practically, when the losses in the hop to acheive sufficient spin drop the energy enough to the point where a lighter bb from the same gun would go further. fun anecdote- it's possible to have 2 "sweet spots" for hop, first when you've just enough pressure to get the spin, then turning the hop on further results in the expected overhop, but go too far and the energy will drop to the point where it'll meet a second spot, with a much higher spin but lower energy. although more usually by the time you get to that point the gun just jams.

damn you, making me have to go do math...... so for 0.5 seconds of flight time, with a muzzle energy of 1j and hop set for ~20cm of rise above muzzle: a 0.2g bb will lose 0.002406j due to gravitational potential energy and 0.9j due to drag forces a 0.5g bb will lose 0.006015j due to gravitational potential energy and 0.58j due to drag force granted that's a very oversimplified calculation based on simply the flight time (ie not counting energy that would accelerate the bb upwards to get that 20cm of rise), but then the drag model is pretty over-simplified as well. however the point is it's a negligible amount compared to the primary force which is the conventional drag.

except that is very very literally what the magnus effect does to an airsoft bb.....

best i can make out that's probably a good analogy. seems they're switching to a cast rather than machined casing (shouldnt affect performance too much tbh) and moving to machine winding, which i don't know enough about motors to know how big an impact that'll have.

now there's a reference that's making me feel old now.... currently going through the outer worlds, been on my list for a while and picked it up on sale. not gotten too far into it yet but seems to be if fallout did a borderlands pre-prequel, which sits well with me having enjoyed fallout3/NV (haven't got around to 4 yet) and having sunk more time into the borderlands franchise than i'm willing to admit. doing my usual trick of a relaxed easy mode/relatively peaceful playthrough for the sake of enjoying the plot before messing around with specific builds/characters later on. tbh i'm just glad of any game that has more than 2 hours of plot to it in favor of the lazy development option of making a couple of big maps and adding a battle royale mode.

for posterity i'd like to point out that whilst i'll use popcorn memes as a tool for communication i generally preferr my snack foods to taste better than their container...... which is why i now have a bag of maltesers sorrynotsorry

at this point should we maybe rename this thread to the grand unified theory of airsoft? i think so far the only topic we haven't taken a tangent into is the #knownfact that tm recoils don't abide by normal physics oh bugger....

thought i had it for a while there, but now i'm definitely lost again.

yep, definately 2 different conversations going on here..... at this point i'm not even sure what the point that's trying to be made is

presumably by being a man of taste and refinement?

you're literally just describing the three variables in the kinetic energy equation wherein Ek=0.5*Mp*Vp^2 but that's far from the only equation at play if you want to know the answer to how much energy a bb with given starting properties (mass, energy and spin) will have at a certain distance, or indeed as most airsofters really care about how much distance can they get the bb to go.

i'm starting to think there are 2 very different conversations going on here........

ahh yes, that does seem to be the case, as i mentioned it doesn't seem the "drag crisis" which could do something like this, applies to airsoft. Internal mechanics are a whole different kettle of fish. there's a lot of work could be done for example in looking at pressure curves for given energies and barrel lengths/diameters to find out if there's an optimum. so say an Xmm barrel with a Ymm wall clearance to the bb has the most stable airflow around the bb at X energy, what wall clearance would be needed to acheive the same stable airflow for a shorter barrel to acheive the same level of stability? where do the limits lie? and that's before even considering the requirements for achieving this, such as for a given volume of cylinder whether it's better to have a full stroke piston that will start compressing with the piston already at a higher velocity, or a short stroked piston that starts at a lower velocity but has a stronger spring to compensate. there's plenty of anecdotal based information, eg folks saying "x-y" is the optimum barrel length, or "use widebores for X application tightbores for Y application" but i've not seen any hardcore nerd-time testing/simulation on the subject. i suspect any benefit within the extremes is probably small enough that getting a system consistent enough to even notice would be it's own challenge. the real answer of course, is whilst it's fun to think in hypotheticals, those who say "screw that, just get closer" do have a valid point

it is technically possible, depending on the difference in energy, and difference in bb weight used. for example (and i haven't checked these numbers) if you were talking a 0.48g fired at 1j compared to a 0.2g fired at 1.3j then the 0.2g would lose energy faster, and at some distance would pass the 0.48g bb and from that point on the heavier bb would have more energy at range. combine that with the fact that as the 0.2g slows it falls further out of the sweet spot for magnus lift and it magnifies it even further. however if we're talking bigger energy difference, say 0.48g at 0.5j compared to 0.2g at 1.5j then it'd be a different story.

when it comes to airsoft projectiles when you do the math on this it ends up pretty linear: for fixed bb weight, more energy at muzzle also means more energy at every point along its flightpath (including extending said flightpath) for fixed energy, more bb mass means the same energy at the mozzle, but higher energy at every point along its flightpath (including extending said flightpath) any combination of both (more energy and more bb weight) increases both. it is also possible for a given range that a heavier bb fired at a lower energy can land with more authority than a lighter bb fired at a higher energy. there was some discussion a while back about the "drag crisis", most notable for its implementation with the dimples on a golf ball, but best i can make out our bb's are too small and travelling too slowly for this criteria to matter. as for when it hits a target, well generally speaking our bb's don't really deform nor do they penetrate their target, so the energy transfer is pretty much whatever energy the bb has at the time.

that laser mount though

i'm not saying i disagree with such a subjective assessment.......

to answer one of the questions in the ad about the lack of safety- it's done when using a speed trigger which essentially keeps the trigger pulled almost all the way and means the default safety block won't engage. it's possible to modify the safety to account for this, but it's equally easy to just disconnect the airline if you want to safe the gun. it's a tricky one, price wise it's a bit steep for a jack build, and whilst aesthetically it might not be to many folks tastes it probably is pretty damn good for speedsofter shenanigans.

i'd have to say the warhead standard. it's somewhat comparable to the asg 30k however the pickup speed for semi-auto is noticeably better. i was getting ~18rps in auto on a 12:1 short-stroked build on 7.4 whilst retaining very snappy response in semi. the contacts are a bit more delicate going onto a pcb, and installation does need an extra bit of care, however once it's in there then there's no dirt from brushes as a bonus.

iirc powair6 do custom guns that have the stop on empty feature, although afaik they require special mags for them. not sure of anything native to any of the major brands, but i haven't checked recently.